To want to just put the whole "having a child" idea to bed because I'm so stressed now?

[obstinatrix]

Deep breath. Sorry, I only ever seem to post here when there's some massive knot to unpick and no real answer.

Backstory: I (a woman) have been married to my wife for over ten years. I never wanted children growing up. I am a very butch lesbian to the extent that I'm uncomfortable with many of the feminine features of my body and have always had a horror of pregnancy. However, in 2015 wife became extremely broody. I wanted her to be happy more than I wanted to remain childfree, so I agreed that we could try inseminating her using donor sperm. We did, three times, at home. She did not get pregnant. She then changed jobs from a truly terrible situation and afterwards informed me that she thinks she only really wanted a baby to escape her terrible job, i.e. for the maternity leave. I said fine.

Fast forward to late 2019 and suddenly I became overwhelmed with broodiness, which I had never expected to happen to me! At first I thought I could just donate eggs and that would solve it for me. I mentioned it to wife and she said straightforwardly that she's spent five years putting the idea of having children behind her and she didn't want any. I accepted this at first, but then started to feel strongly that I really wanted my own baby, so much so that I was willing to be pregnant even though the idea still makes me feel very uncomfortable. This made me think I must genuinely really want it.

So, I cried about it, she said okay, we went to a fertility clinic and agreed that I would donate eggs and in return get a free IVF cycle -- so I would have some eggs for me, and some for another woman as a donation. Wife and I had a counselling session wherein we both agreed this was fine (I have no concerns about donating eggs).

Then coronavirus struck and everything got put on hold. During this period, wife first said actually she still really doesn't want a baby, then said she doesn't want ME to carry a baby because that's not in line with how she's thought of our relationship, she'll feel alienated, she'll feel as if it's nothing to do with her etc. I said fine I'll just donate eggs then, but we had a big fight about it and I was very upset. In the end I said I felt it was worse for me to make her have a baby (she'd legally be its parent) than it was for her to not let me have one.

We agree on this for a short time. I was very upset but thought I'd get used to it. Then she suddenly said if she could carry the baby (my egg) we could do it. Historically this has never been possible for us because her BMI is too high but she has lost a lot of weight in lockdown. She would now only need to lose another stone to receive the egg and she says she can do it. I've agreed that we can wait for her to do this and then go ahead.

The thing is, it's gone back and forth so many times that I now just feel really stressed about it, and also she's now seemingly stopped losing weight. I keep thinking about the things she said when she told me she didn't want a baby, unequivocally: about not wanting me to have the baby, and about feeling she'd be a bad mother. She has a terrible relationship with her own mother and actually I could see her being terrible. And I can't help thinking maybe I'm just hormonally broody and the desire will pass (my best friend is also in the process of getting IVF and maybe I'm influenced by that).

I just don't know what to do. I am so stressed out with thinking about it, and cross with her for insisting she be the one to carry it which means I have to wait for her to lose an arbitrary 14lbs she might never lose. Furthermore, my parents are extremely homophobic and would undoubtedly be really awful about it if we had a child, and it makes me really sad thinking about having to explain to a kid why my sister's children go to granny and grandad's house and they can't. I have considered just going to the fertility clinic (who, by the way, keep ringing me, because clearly they need donor eggs) and saying I'll just do the donation after all, but now having had the option of a baby dangled in front of me, going through all that just to donate seems really depressing!

I just do not know what to do. If we'd gone ahead in the first instance without overthinking it, I'd probably be pregnant by now but we've had too much time to think about it, I am now not allowed to just take this easiest of all options, and I want to just chuck it all in so we can stop arguing about it.

@obstinatrix exactly, it’s not simplest or easiest thing. Bearing in mind the cost, stress, medication / procedure side effects etc. I can be quite anxious and at times doubted if this what l really want. I’m sure if l had got pregnant within a couple of months like most people, it would be less like that

The problem is, most women don't have to think about this in any depth, as others have said.

I have to disagree with what you've said here - I think most women do have to think about it in depth, and have to make considered choices which can and do impact their entire lives.

I agree that your relationship sounds quite up and down from the outside - chopping and changing like that must be hard to live with because you sound like you've both changed a huge amount in a reasonably short amount of time. Only you can know if you're able to put the thought of children to one side permanently, but if it's not something you can do, admit it openly and make your next move based on what you need.

The problem is, most women don't have to think about this in any depth, as others have said.

ALL women should think about it as in depth. If they did there might not be so many women on the relationship boards with utterly predictable nightmares going on with the fathers of their children.

All I cam say, as a new mother. Do NOT have a baby if both of you are not 100% really wanting them.

Babies are hard work, like really hard.

Also, she only wanted a baby for the maternity leave? Take it from me, work is easier then caring for a baby 24/7.

I wouldnt feel comfortable leaving her with a baby

@Merryoldgoat

The problem is, most women don't have to think about this in any depth, as others have said.

ALL women should think about it as in depth. If they did there might not be so many women on the relationship boards with utterly predictable nightmares going on with the fathers of their children.

Yes might be more correct to say they don’t think about it. Of course they should. But many can and do proceed with minimal thought involved! Whereas those with fertility issues or lesbians must think it through. And with thought comes doubt and hesitation. Sometimes rightly, sometimes it’s just normal anxiety. Hard to know which is which!

I think she's pulling a fast one....if she never quite loses the weight then your egg never gets used and no baby but she can keep you hanging on for years in hope.

I think you have a wife problem not a fertility problem

Well, no, it’s not a fertility problem. There is nothing to indicate either of us have poor fertility.

"Adopting"!!?? Do you think this sounds the sort of relationship that would support a child who has already had a wobbly start in life? Do not even countenance this.

@Mischance

"Adopting"!!?? Do you think this sounds the sort of relationship that would support a child who has already had a wobbly start in life? Do not even countenance this.

I must say I don’t really understand why everyone is assuming the relationship itself is terrible, given how little I said about it! Other than this, it isn’t.

@RedPanda17

Is adopting an option? Could you explore this in counselling?

When one partner thinks the other partner might be a terrible parent they WON'T pass an adoption assessment (and thank goodness)

OP you can't have a baby with someone you think is too selfish and immature to be a good mum.

Yes might be more correct to say they don’t think about it. Of course they should. But many can and do proceed with minimal thought involved! Whereas those with fertility issues or lesbians must think it through. And with thought comes doubt and hesitation. Sometimes rightly, sometimes it’s just normal anxiety. Hard to know which is which!

I agree with this, and that the chopping and changing doesn't indicate anything inherently wrong in the relationship quite apart from the fertility side of things, and needing external intervention to conceive, only lesbians need to consider which one of them carries the baby, whose egg etc (assuming both are fertile, capable and willing). I saw this decision cause a lot of heartache to some lesbian friends one of them, the older, desperately wanted to carry the baby and then had an almost at term stillbirth after a high-risk pregnancy, after which complications meant she couldn't try to carry another child, so she had to watch her wife carry their next baby (successfully) to term, when she was the one of the two of them who had wanted very badly to be pregnant and give birth. They are wonderful parents, but what they had to go through in order to be parents was arduous and difficult, even on top of the medical interventions, and I understand the OP's posts in that light.

I agree with the people suggesting counselling, OP. It's very psychologically complicated.

Hi Op!
You describe a yearning to have a child which is very real. Hormones are extremely powerful and can totally change your thinking. The rush of oxytocin you would feel when your baby arrives will overwhelm you with love. You will want to use the poor models in the generation before you as a guide of how not to parent.

You describe yourself as very butch, by which I understand masculine. What a perfect "father figure" you will make! You'll be a mum and a dad in one.

I can understand how the tooing and froing over the issue has put you both through the wringer. Be kind to yourself about that. Most people don't have so many questions to explore - you do - which woman carries the baby is only one of them.

If your heart yearns for a baby I would go for it. If you love your wife very much, go for it with her.

The weight thing is a red herring I think - it is hard to lose weight of course. Are you certain you couldn't carry the baby- I feel like if her wife, the woman she loves, gave birth to a baby, she would love it too.

I taught a little girl with two mums. She was a wonderful kid.

You write from the heart and with intelligence. I think you'd make a brilliant parent.

I’m really sorry, OP. It sounds like you’re going through a very hard time - but I really don’t think your relationship sounds a good one to bring a baby in to.

It sounds very up and down, fraught and as though you both frequently change your minds. Babies can be incredibly difficult and stressful to look after, especially at the beginning.

I don’t think your relationship sounds up to it.

It took me and DH over 5 years to get pregnant, including a failed IVF (initially successful but early miscarriage). I would say two things to consider are that your wife has had a desire to have a baby, tried and failed. She's had to deal with the idea of remaining childless and not having a biological child. Suddenly she's now faced with possibly having a child after all, but not a biological one. Also seeing pregnant ladies is hard in that situation, I would imagine living in the same house as a pregnant lady would be tough on her. There are a lot of feelings in there that could well explain some of the back and forth you're coming across. And the other thing I would say is IVF is a fair deal to go through and to do that to donate eggs only when you really want to have a baby could be pretty hard on you in a similar way to your wife. Ultimately, my advice is you should talk everything through (counseling would probably be beneficial) for both of you before making a decision on how to proceed. Best of luck to you all.

I wish other parents would consider having a child as much as you and your partner OP. That alone shows you have great potential to be mothers. Many don't think long term at all. Yet they are supported despite the fact they have multiple children with deadbeats.

If you truly want it and the baby will be loved and cared for, do it xxx

I find it hilarious that so many are reading massive problems into the ops relationship rather than recognising the op has insight into her partners strengths and weaknesses and can admit to them on an anonymous forum.

If only all women could do the same. The rate of divorce would be considerably lower!

@Mmn654123

I find it hilarious that so many are reading massive problems into the ops relationship rather than recognising the op has insight into her partners strengths and weaknesses and can admit to them on an anonymous forum.

If only all women could do the same. The rate of divorce would be considerably lower!

Thank you for understanding!

@obstinatrix
Not a problem. Ignore the inappropriate and offensive posters on this thread. And really very best of luck deciding how to proceed. We opted not to have kids, but we know others who have and so far they are doing brilliantly. I admire those who are brave enough to take the leap. It’s a hard path, whichever way you decide because you either have to navigate parenthood in a world that isn’t really ‘there’ yet, or live with the knowledge of what might have been. Both paths have their difficulties and their compensations!

Like others have said, reading this gave me a headache! Neither of you sound particularly mature (I don't mean to sound rude but unfortunately that's how your post came across) or even certain you want a baby. And for those reasons alone I'd put the idea back in its box and onto the shelf which it belongs. It sounds like a baby would be very damaging to your relationship.

There are so many others joyous and fulfilling things in life that don't include a baby

I haven't changed my mind. I want a baby and have been sure about it since at least last year, and ambivalent about it (i.e. would be happy to) since 2015
You have changed your mind. One year fuelled by hormone is not very long when you had almost 10 years of thinking you didn't want one.

It could mean that your broodiness has unleashed a desire to parent that was always there, or it could've just your hormones talking and when baby's her hormones back to normal you'll be overwhelmed with the feeling that parenting is not really for you and never really was.

You and your partner have mixed emotions about the whole thing. It's hard enough when the act of making the baby and carrying it is straighforward, having a baby in a same sex marriage certainly adds another layer of confusion.

You are now at what seems at her mercy to get where you are desperate to be, so resentment could quickly set in if she doesn't lose the weight, whilst she'll feel under massive pressure to lose the weight for an end she is not 100% certain about. All this could very much affect your otherwise solid relationship.

I think you need to go to joint counselling first before you take any further steps. You still have 2 years to consider plans as set now, longer for a different one.

I wouldn't bring a baby into this. Your relationship sounds very all over the place.

@Ayuayuayu

I wouldn't bring a baby into this. Your relationship sounds very all over the place.

I still don’t know where anyone’s getting this.

You describe your wife as going to be a terrible mother. I wouldn’t have had DC if I’d thought DH would be a bad father. I’m sure some people do and others have accidents but most people only consider bringing a child into the world with someone they at least hope and expect will be a decent parent. Otherwise it’s just selfish as you’re knowingly condemning an innocent child to a shit parent, an unhappy childhood and probably seeing their okay parent ditch their bad one. Because you need fertility assistance you’ve had more time to put some real thought into it and several times on here you’ve described your wife in pretty scathing terms. You’ve even managed to have a dig at her weight gain. That’s just not how happy loved up people talk about their spouses.

That’s why...

@AnneLovesGilbert I never said she’d gained weight...? I think she’s gorgeous as she is, it’s just annoying that there’s an arbitrary weight condition set by the clinic.

I still don’t think anything I’ve said about her has been scathing: as others have said, it’s just realistic. To be fair my criteria for judging mothers is extremely high. In my experience almost all mothers are shit in one way or another, mostly because they haven’t been as over considerate as we are being about their own emotional inadequacies.

I have a theory. I reckon there is some hormone drive that makes women believe their male partner is the best potential mate ever. Regardless of reality. It would explain all the ‘he’s such a great dad’ claims in threads that demonstrate he’s actually a total wanker. Whereas same sex couples don’t have that biological delusion!