To want to just put the whole "having a child" idea to bed because I'm so stressed now?

[obstinatrix]

Deep breath. Sorry, I only ever seem to post here when there's some massive knot to unpick and no real answer.

Backstory: I (a woman) have been married to my wife for over ten years. I never wanted children growing up. I am a very butch lesbian to the extent that I'm uncomfortable with many of the feminine features of my body and have always had a horror of pregnancy. However, in 2015 wife became extremely broody. I wanted her to be happy more than I wanted to remain childfree, so I agreed that we could try inseminating her using donor sperm. We did, three times, at home. She did not get pregnant. She then changed jobs from a truly terrible situation and afterwards informed me that she thinks she only really wanted a baby to escape her terrible job, i.e. for the maternity leave. I said fine.

Fast forward to late 2019 and suddenly I became overwhelmed with broodiness, which I had never expected to happen to me! At first I thought I could just donate eggs and that would solve it for me. I mentioned it to wife and she said straightforwardly that she's spent five years putting the idea of having children behind her and she didn't want any. I accepted this at first, but then started to feel strongly that I really wanted my own baby, so much so that I was willing to be pregnant even though the idea still makes me feel very uncomfortable. This made me think I must genuinely really want it.

So, I cried about it, she said okay, we went to a fertility clinic and agreed that I would donate eggs and in return get a free IVF cycle -- so I would have some eggs for me, and some for another woman as a donation. Wife and I had a counselling session wherein we both agreed this was fine (I have no concerns about donating eggs).

Then coronavirus struck and everything got put on hold. During this period, wife first said actually she still really doesn't want a baby, then said she doesn't want ME to carry a baby because that's not in line with how she's thought of our relationship, she'll feel alienated, she'll feel as if it's nothing to do with her etc. I said fine I'll just donate eggs then, but we had a big fight about it and I was very upset. In the end I said I felt it was worse for me to make her have a baby (she'd legally be its parent) than it was for her to not let me have one.

We agree on this for a short time. I was very upset but thought I'd get used to it. Then she suddenly said if she could carry the baby (my egg) we could do it. Historically this has never been possible for us because her BMI is too high but she has lost a lot of weight in lockdown. She would now only need to lose another stone to receive the egg and she says she can do it. I've agreed that we can wait for her to do this and then go ahead.

The thing is, it's gone back and forth so many times that I now just feel really stressed about it, and also she's now seemingly stopped losing weight. I keep thinking about the things she said when she told me she didn't want a baby, unequivocally: about not wanting me to have the baby, and about feeling she'd be a bad mother. She has a terrible relationship with her own mother and actually I could see her being terrible. And I can't help thinking maybe I'm just hormonally broody and the desire will pass (my best friend is also in the process of getting IVF and maybe I'm influenced by that).

I just don't know what to do. I am so stressed out with thinking about it, and cross with her for insisting she be the one to carry it which means I have to wait for her to lose an arbitrary 14lbs she might never lose. Furthermore, my parents are extremely homophobic and would undoubtedly be really awful about it if we had a child, and it makes me really sad thinking about having to explain to a kid why my sister's children go to granny and grandad's house and they can't. I have considered just going to the fertility clinic (who, by the way, keep ringing me, because clearly they need donor eggs) and saying I'll just do the donation after all, but now having had the option of a baby dangled in front of me, going through all that just to donate seems really depressing!

I just do not know what to do. If we'd gone ahead in the first instance without overthinking it, I'd probably be pregnant by now but we've had too much time to think about it, I am now not allowed to just take this easiest of all options, and I want to just chuck it all in so we can stop arguing about it.

What a tricky situation OP. Have you asked your wife why you/she thinks she would be an awful parent? Maybe that's why she keeps changing her mind? If you're able to get to the bottom of it, it might help you both come to a mutual decision.

I disagree with most PP. I don't think the relationship itself seems a 'calamity', just that this situation is at the forefront of it. I do however think this needs to either happen or be put to bed, otherwise it will go on for another few years and you could end up within resentment issues.

It does seem as though it's your wife who is being unreasonable. You've said you'll carry, and that you're also happy for her to carry, you've made a compromise in relation to egg donation/IVF and she seems to be giving the green light then putting the brakes on.

@Merryoldgoat

Kids are hard enough when you’re both ready, have family support, have a great drama-free relationship and have zero money issues.

Having them in a tempestuous relationship with someone immature and a hateful family would be foolhardy.

The relationship itself is not tempestuous. We don't have any money issues.

I do agree with you re: my terrible family but the worst thing is, I don't want to agree with you because then it feels like they've won! If I don't have a baby, which I want, because I know my horrible mother who hates me would be embarrassed about it...I mean...isn't that telling her she's right?

@DriftGames

What a tricky situation OP. Have you asked your wife why you/she thinks she would be an awful parent? Maybe that's why she keeps changing her mind? If you're able to get to the bottom of it, it might help you both come to a mutual decision.

I disagree with most PP. I don't think the relationship itself seems a 'calamity', just that this situation is at the forefront of it. I do however think this needs to either happen or be put to bed, otherwise it will go on for another few years and you could end up within resentment issues.

It does seem as though it's your wife who is being unreasonable. You've said you'll carry, and that you're also happy for her to carry, you've made a compromise in relation to egg donation/IVF and she seems to be giving the green light then putting the brakes on.

Honestly I think she's afraid she will turn into her mother. She worries that she will model the same behaviours. Personally I don't think that is necessarily true -- we both have awful relationships with our terrible mothers, so personally I think doing the straightforward opposite of what my mother did would be a good guiding principle, and likewise with her! But she has anxiety issues and worries that she would be overly protective of the child, panic if it was away from her, etc, which I can see.

Your relationship doesn't sound stable enough if I'm honest - the chopping and changing of minds by your partner and her lack of motivation to lose the weight for the IVF to go ahead. You'd be bringing a child into a seemingly fragile relationship with a woman you openly admit would likely Be a terrible mother (your words) and denying them a father on top. Putting aside your wins wants and desires I think it wouldn't be great for the child first and foremost

@obstinatrix I see. You don't automatically become your own mother though, and this is well worth noting! My mum is great, but I am the polar opposite. We both had children quite young - her 19 and me 24, but we parent very differently and are very different people in general, though we do get on well.

My daughter is 9.5 months and I genuinely had the biggest fear of leaving her with others, then lockdown hit and it was only amplified, however faced with having to go back to work, I had no option, and she goes to my in-laws. She cries when I leave and it hurts but she gets over it. My point being, you/she will be over protective, you will shit yourselves at the thought of leaving baby with anyone else, but you do get over it, because it's life. Providing you trust the people you leave baby with, then it gets easier.

You both sound very caring, just in a difficult, potentially life changing situation, with unsupportive parents which never helps. I don't know either of you, but I think you'd both be great parents. You're so consciously thinking about the decision that it shows you care.

You'll also have a great life equally if you choose not to have children! Life is what you make it. Good luck OP!

@ivfbeenbusy

Your relationship doesn't sound stable enough if I'm honest - the chopping and changing of minds by your partner and her lack of motivation to lose the weight for the IVF to go ahead. You'd be bringing a child into a seemingly fragile relationship with a woman you openly admit would likely Be a terrible mother (your words) and denying them a father on top. Putting aside your wins wants and desires I think it wouldn't be great for the child first and foremost

I'm not loving "denying them a father" as a reason. Plenty of people grow up without a father, indeed with only one parent. If you're just opposed to lesbian couples having children then please just say so.

She sounds immature and selfish. But many people get over that once they have a child, some get worse.

What would be the ideal situation for you? If you didnt have to compromise with her. What do you actually want?

How old is your wife? Has she got time to think about this?

@Nottherealslimshady

She sounds immature and selfish. But many people get over that once they have a child, some get worse.

What would be the ideal situation for you? If you didnt have to compromise with her. What do you actually want?

I mean, to me the ideal outcome would be for her to lose the requisite stone and then carry the baby so I don't have to. Which would be fine, as she would also rather carry, and is happy to carry my egg, but now she's worried me so much with the back and forth that I'm afraid she doesn't really want to do this. Really I think she'd be so excited to be pregnant that it would all be fine, but it's the overthinking that's crippling me, and the worrying that I'm making her do something she doesn't feel sure of.

I think she can be immature but I don't think she's deliberately selfish. If anything she is too concerned about the effects of her own personal defects which she is far more conscious of than I am on any possible child.

@TooExtraImmatureCheddar

How old is your wife? Has she got time to think about this?

We are both 33.

If it were me I’d leave her and have a baby alone. To me having children before it’s too late is priority to staying with a partner giving me ultimatums and making me feel this way. There’s too much uncertainty, neither of you seem to know what you really want and I personally don’t think you alone or together are ready for a baby and the stress that brings. I understand time is ticking, but you need to think about a potential child in this situation. Are you confident dp would stick around? Are you confident a child would get the love and attention they need? Any doubts, you need to push this to the back of your mind until you feel sure about the decision. Would a surrogate be an option later on if it’s the pregnancy that’s causing an issue between you?

Do you actually like your partner? You talk about her very sneeringly and dismissively here - are you just ranting or do you genuinely feel that way about her?

@Dyrne

Do you actually like your partner? You talk about her very sneeringly and dismissively here - are you just ranting or do you genuinely feel that way about her?

Do I? I don't think I have been sneering or dismissive. I like her very much.

@Ishihtzuknot

If it were me I’d leave her and have a baby alone. To me having children before it’s too late is priority to staying with a partner giving me ultimatums and making me feel this way. There’s too much uncertainty, neither of you seem to know what you really want and I personally don’t think you alone or together are ready for a baby and the stress that brings. I understand time is ticking, but you need to think about a potential child in this situation. Are you confident dp would stick around? Are you confident a child would get the love and attention they need? Any doubts, you need to push this to the back of your mind until you feel sure about the decision. Would a surrogate be an option later on if it’s the pregnancy that’s causing an issue between you?

I am absolutely sure that no matter what, she would never leave me. I also think that when push came to shove, we'd be excellent parents, but she is a perfectionist and it's a perfect is the enemy of good enough situation which has infected me with anxiety.

You’ve called her immature, a potential bad mother, belittled her weight loss efforts and struggles... need I go on?

I don’t think the ‘chopping and changing’ is indicative of a bad relationship for you or children.

Lesbians have to consider more issues than straight couples. Including the impact of horrid homophobic families and often anxieties about whether they as individuals will be able to protect the child from the horrid homophobic people they will encounter throughout childhood. So it is normal to think about whether your partner will cope with having to be more emotionally competent than straight mothers usually need to be.

And some are deciding if cutting their whole family off would be best for their child.

It’s no small undertaking to decide if you need to be a unit of just three and cut out the toxic family forces. And you do need to know you can weather every storm together if you do. But in many cases it’s the only viable path to protect the wellbeing of the child.

Most straight couples don’t need to think like this. You’re right to think carefully.

You’re still young but it’s easier to use fresh eggs rather than freezing for future use. I think if your partner isn’t now losing weight then you may need a chat about whether it’s an avoidance mechanism. Maybe she anticipates the problems ahead and isn’t sure. And the decision of who carries the baby is emotive as it’s hard to predict how you will feel if you are, or if you aren’t, the one to do that!

Best of luck whatever you decide.

Doesn't using a donor egg make the pregnancy higher risk? Also isn't it more confusing for a child? One mother is their biological parent in the sense of half their genes. The other mother was pregnant with them and gave birth to them. Their father is a donor.

Wouldn't it be better if one of you was fully the mother from a biological viewpoint and you had some sort of ongoing co parenting relationship with the father?

I don't know. It actually does sound really really difficult. I personally worry about the donation of eggs and sperm because I think the genetic connection is important to identity and well being of the child.

I hope you are able to resolve everything for the best.

My partner and I both have bad role models for parents, we were both concerned we would be bad parents but we didn't want to be bad parents and that's the difference! Without being big headed, I think we are very decent parents, a big improvement on our own anyway as the little ones come first! Soooo.... point is, your partner worrying she will be a bad parent may be the thing that makes her a good one? And if you are willing to go alone consider how difficult that would be? Parenting with good support systems around you is still difficult so must be horrendous alone?

Which bring a me into: I think you need to take your parents into consideration and have a good chat with them! At the end of the day, as helpful as grandparents are, it's their loss if they are not involved and they may surprise you, my parents did! But again, what's your support system like without parents?

As for pregnancy, I'm straight but not a girly girl at all and I loved it, i expected to feel awkward and maybe it was hormones but I found it a very grounding experience, I even breastfeed when I didn't plan to.

There are positives in what you have said as well as negatives, if you are very sure you want to be a parent, have you considered fostering and adoption if pregnancy isn't something you are too keen on?

It does sound like your partner is using the weight loss as an excuse if she hasn't made any effort to loose it but again as someone who is abit chubby if I say so myself, weight loss isn't easy and if someone tells me to loose weight I automatically feel like doing the opposite!

You have so much to consider, there's a lot going on here and I bet that you know the true answer as you read the replies, I always find I do anyway! Have a good think, work out what's important and strive to do what would be best for a baby 👶

It’s easy for people who don't have fertility issues / challenges to not realise the stress of planning an considering IVF / IUI / assisted fertility etc. My fiancé and l have had fertility issues for over 2 years. Like you and your wife we have thought about it every which way and in many ways over thought / over analysed it all. I think a lot of people in our situation have started to doubt themselves. Are they doubts for you or massive “this really isn’t what l / she wants”?

Going broody hits you like a broadside :-)

 She's had her turn and her way. Time for you to have yours.

Have you considered DIY donor insemination for yourself? Just because it didn't work for her doesn't mean it won't for you.

Time is running out. Why not donate your eggs and freeze some which sounds like the deal the clinic is offering.
Go for some couples counselling and work out what you both really want. Having children is a major decision but also giving up the chance of having children could be something you both regret for the rest of your lives.
Don’t keep dragging this out and arguing back and forth for much longer because time will run away with you and your biological clocks might make the final decision for you.

It’s also harder because you can’t just have an ‘oopsie’ moment in the brief intervals when neither has doubts, like most straight people can......!!!

@EL8888 -- exactly this. When you have to do it actively, and go and get a medical procedure done, you overthink it in ways that others don't. And I do think these are just doubts for me that are creeping up because I've been left so long to think about all this stuff. Doubly so for my partner, who has anxiety.

@Cat14123 I think there is merit in what you say, too. Loads of people are terrible parents! I think my mother only reproduced because she felt she should, she doesn't like children and she was physically abusive to me, never mind her later behaviour. Wife and I would be careful to avoid all that, and the child would be definitively wanted. And also, given my relationship with my mother as a child, I would not want to expose my child to her, really.

@GrapefruitsAreNotTheOnlyFruit Egg sharing is very common with lesbian couples. It's a way of making the child biologically connected to both mums. It makes sense to me -- one mum is the birth mum and the other is the biological mum. Donor sperm is donor sperm, it's not a dad.

@Mmn654123 exactly!

I know time is an issue but I definitely think your wife should look at counselling to examine her relationship with her family so she doesn't repeat patterns if you do have a baby.

There are also specialist fertility counsellors who you can both or individually meet with who specialise in dilemmas such as this and I think you would both find it really helpful.

I wouldn't bring your parents' views into it, they either accept the baby or they don't and you go NC. Plenty of people don't have family support and you don't want a child getting any hint of their toxic views. If you do have a baby, surround yourself with positive people - look up Rainbow Families on Facebook for where you live.

Ignore the pp saying it will deny the baby a father, it's 2020, families come in all shapes and sizes and all that matters is they are secure and loved.

Good luck, it must feel like you can't think straight with all the back and forth coupled with broody hormones, I really do think a counsellor with a speciality in fertility would help you with this.