AIBU to think that dentists are using covid as an excuse to refuse to take on NHS patients while the same practices will happily take on new private patients?

[ohcarolina2001]

I moved house to a new area just after lockdown with a new baby. Obviously I haven't been able to try to register with a new NHS dentist until recently as they have been closed due to covid.

Now that they are opening up again I used the NHS website to identify local NHS dentists who are supposedly taking on new patients and rang up loads of them, only to be told they aren't taking on new NHS patients at the moment but are taking on new private patients! One even said they would only register my baby (who doesn't have teeth yet!) for NHS dentistry if I joined the practice as a private fee paying patient, which I find absolutely outrageous!

I resent paying for private dentistry since NHS dentistry is subsidised (or free for some people like myself with my maternity exemption certificate) and is perfectly good enough in my experience. I mean they all qualified as dentists and I don't need a perfect Hollywood smile, just healthy teeth!

I am concerned about my teeth as they haven't been checked since mid pregnancy and I am now nearly 6 months postpartum, and teeth are more vulnerable during and after pregnancy. I also lost part of a filling last week so would like to be seen soon (I appreciate I may need to join a waiting list while they deal with more urgent cases and the backlog of existing patients not seen during lockdown) but I am loathe to give in to greedy CF dentists who should be providing NHS services to the British public but are using covid as an excuse to take on more private patients and leave those who can't afford private services with nothing. Is this not hugely discriminatory?

Exasperated, I rang up the NHS England number which is meant to help you if you are having trouble finding NHS dentistry and explained my predicament. I think the person on the line revealed too much as she actually told me that I can't get drilling done as an NHS patient now, but only as a private patient. I don't mind paying any additional costs for PPE for drilling due to covid, but don't see how it's fair that I should have to go private to get the treatment I need. I mean, either drilling is safe or unsafe: there shouldn't be drilling for the rich but not for the poor, right?!

YANBU - dentists are being CFs and the poor are getting screwed as usual
YABU - dentists can charge what they like, the NHS can't force them to provide NHS services, and your teeth can rot in hell if you can't afford private.

My friend is an NHS dentist in Scotland who has dedicated her entire career to fixing up the mouths of those “left behind”. She’s incandescent with rage at the SG who won’t allow her to properly treat her patients and for the first time ever is taking private patients to pay her own bills.

It’s certainly not ALL dentists happy with the situation.

My guess would be that there's only a set amount of nhs places in the surgery which is why the cant take you on but can take on private patients.

NHS dentists aren't allowed to pass on the cost of PPE to patients. Given the currently inflated cost of PPE, and the low level of reimbursement for NHS dentistry, plus other overheads, NHS work is running at a loss. Quite simply they need private patients to survive. Don't be angry at the dentists, be angry at the system. In your situation, I would pay for a private check up if you are concerned. I went for one recently, and even in London, it was very affordable.

Lots of private dentists only take a certain percentage of NHS patients as it’s not their main business.

Ours is private but will see the children as NHS whilst we are clients. Most dentists that are local to us are private and any NHS ones are usually full with waiting lists.

This has been an issue since the 00s. The NHS doesn't pay dentists adequately.

I couldn’t find an NHS dentist when we moved and was told that they didn’t have funding for NHS patients, but I could join the practice as a private patient. I did that, because my teeth are problematic and need to be examined regularly.

My May hygienist appointment was cancelled and so was the August one that replaced it. My July dental appointment was cancelled. At the end of June, the front fell off a tooth and a crown I had fitted last year became loose. Neither of those are apparently an emergency and I couldn’t get an appointment as a private patient.

In desperation, I contacted other wholly private practices and it’s costing me a fortune. It’s not tight, of course not, but if I have to pay to stop my teeth deteriorating, then that’s what I’ll have to do.

They're not CFers, they're not paid properly and people want something for nothing. It ain't happening. You pay for private or go on a wait list. It's how it's going.

My dad, who is retired, broke a tooth recently. His dentist told him they aren't allowed to do any treatment that requires drilling at the moment, but she could do it privately for 500 pounds or patch it up and he can wait. He chose to patch it up, but I didn't understand that at all.

I think people are finally starting to realise just what 10+ years of Tory government is doing, although it's all been underfunded for many years and there's no going back to a comprehensive service because it's too expensive and people either cannot or won't be willing to pay for this. Protesting, complaining, digging your heels in will do nothing because you can't get blood out of a stone.

I know it's a controversial opinion & I understand why, but I think YANBU. My DH had 2 teeth fall out last year, he has had 1 fall out since lockdown (he actually pulled it out as it was too painful to chew, due to being very wobbly) & he's fairly sure he has a cavity. He has genetic tendency to bad teeth, his father had a full denture in his early 50s. I'm lucky/diligent & have perfect teeth. We can't get an NHS dentist, our last (NHS) dentist retired a couple of months ago so now we have no dentist. Trying to figure out how to afford him & DD dental care... TBH I'll probably just get a checkup every 5 years, I never need anything done. I checked for NHS dentists, our next nearest is about 40 miles away, we don't have a car so it's basically a full days trip out on public transport. I am dreading paying for DH dentures, I don't know how we will afford them.

I do understand the reasons why dentists are at risk though. They were left rather in the lurch by the government during this whole situation.

The amount of NHS work a practice can do is limited and set out in their contract with the NHS.

They cant take on NHS patients willy nilly. If they have fullfilled their quota they cant do anymore NHS work, or rather they can but they wont get paid at all for it.

My guess would be that there's only a set amount of nhs places in the surgery which is why the cant take you on but can take on private patients

Bingo.

Dentists don't have magic money trees.

My DD had jaw surgery end of february just before covid hit. Her post surgery treatment was cancelled including making sure her jaw has stayed aligned, and her braces removed.

Since then she developed an abscess on the roof of her mouth just smaller than a golf ball and in excruciating pain, her braces are floating meaning her teeth are now separating, the pins put in after her op means she cant clean her teeth and they are now rotting.

I understand dentists/ orthodontists weren't allowed to work. But they are now seeing patients but still refusing to help her in any way. She has still never received any post op treatment which was meant to be crucial to the outcome of the surgery

@BuffyTheBuffetSlayer you need to contact the unit who did your DDs surgery, not your dentist. It sounds like she has post-op infection?

Thats past a dentists remit really. The dutty of care is with the hospital team

The braces should not be floating. They will not be exerting a force on the the teeth to move them but they should be holding the teeth in place. And your dd should still be able to clean her teeth properly

@DishRanAwayWithTheSpoon She spoke on the telephone to the hospital department. She spoke to her dentist, NHS24 and the emergency dental hospital begging for help. After getting nowhere I phoned the hospital where her surgery was done myself and explained how bad her mouth had become. They finally agreed to see her. She was seen by someone, not the surgeon who over saw all her pre op care though. They said there was nothing they could do. X-rays showed she now needs teeth removed and root canal caused by the delay in post op treatment. Again they are not allowed to carry this out.
She had pins put all over her braces in preparation for them to be tightened to hold the jaw in place after her op. They were never tightened and it is the pins that make it difficult for her to clean her teeth properly. No one is willing to so much as remove the pins.
Her braces have broke in a couple of places, wires digging into her cheeks and yes, because the braces have never been tightened since they were fitted in February her teeth are separating. Which was acknowledged at the hospital. Again more apologies that they can't help her. Some of the things that could help her, such as the removal of her braces since they are now causing so much damage don't create spray, so I dont understand why they wont help. And as pp have all said, they can safely treat private patients, so why not continue with her post op care with things that are clearly safe to do so.

@InsaneInTheViralMembrane

My friend is an NHS dentist in Scotland who has dedicated her entire career to fixing up the mouths of those “left behind”. She’s incandescent with rage at the SG who won’t allow her to properly treat her patients and for the first time ever is taking private patients to pay her own bills.

It’s certainly not ALL dentists happy with the situation.

Glad to hear there are dentists like your friend but sorry that she is also stuck between a rock and a hard place.

Buffy - that is horrifying. Go to the papers.

@BuffyTheBuffetSlayer

That is really unusual. She still needs to contact the hospital not her dentist, this is out of what an NHS dentist should be doing. An NHs dentist should not bw removing someone elses braces, but the hospital can.

Whereabouts are you in the country? The hospital should be able to bend the wires, or remove the wires if they are causing trauma without generating aerosol, regardless they should have appropriate PPE to deal with the case. Is the orthodontist a hospital orthodontist

Im not sure entirely what surgery shes had or what braces she has had on, but assuming its some kind of orthognathic surgery it should have been reviewed within 1/2 weeks so way before covid hit. The pins should be cleanable, even if its more challenging as otherwise this is always going to happen whether they get reviewed or not. Thats still extremely quick to end up with root canals and extractions.

She needs an appointment with the original orthodontist I would say who was involved in the surgery as it sounds like an orthodontic problem. And she needs to push this

This has been a massive problem for years, well before Covid 19 even existed.

Buffy that is horrifying. I really hope your DD is seen urgently.

We got an email from our dentist yesterday sent out to all NHS patients saying we cant see you for the foreseeable future but if you want join our private service (attached the details) we can see you as early as this week. Utterly disgusting. So if you have money, drop by, if you dont, f*ck off.

The government have made this decision, not the dentist. If you don’t like it, vote differently.

@DishRanAwayWithTheSpoon We are in Scotland. Her pre op care was done by an NHS orthodontist at the dental hospital. She had months of braces to move her teeth into the best position before her surgery. This was all overseen by a surgeon who she saw every now and again to see how the pre op treatment was progressing, discuss her moulds/ surgery info/ dates and post op treatment.
The surgery was upper jaw surgery to correct jaw alignment but mainly because of a substantial gap between her top and bottom teeth making eating difficult.
The surgery was done mid February followed by 3 days in hospital and 6 weeks recovery at home. After 2 weeks she went to the orthodontist for a checkup. This is when the pins were inserted and bands placed on them to tighten everything and help train her jaw to stay in it's new position. She was meant to go back after 2 weeks to have everything tightened and if all went well the braces were to come off soon after and given a retainer.
But covid hit and her 2nd orthodontist appointment was cancelled.

We DID phone the hospital she had received treatment from, we DID phone the hospital she had her surgery different to where she had pre op treatment). She DID see someone at the hospital where she had her surgery and they confirmed all the new damage after an examination and x-rays and apologised saying they can do nothing to help.

The hospital should be able to bend the wires, or remove the wires if they are causing trauma without generating aerosol, regardless they should have appropriate PPE to deal with the case.

This is exactly what I said in my original post. They should be able to help her but they are refusing.

Sorry, it should say she had years of braces (2 years) pre-op treatment

My OH is a private dentist but says that the corporates nearby have been told not to do anything other than emergency treatment of NHS patients (so around 20%) but they are still getting their full fees as if they were treating all their NHS patients! No idea if this is true or if its rival dentists slagging each other off!!

ohcarolina all dentists are not the same! I had a filling from an NHS dentist but it never felt 'right' and I had increased sensitivity in that tooth. Went back twice and each time he took an x ray and said nothing was wrong. I could feel the tooth pulling every time I chewed something! One afternoon I had the onset of such sudden and severe pain that I practically begged my dentist OH to have a look - he gently poked the tooth and the filling fell out leaving a massive area of rot underneath - needed a root filling. I have no idea why subsequent xrays didn't pick up the gaping hole under the filling but have now freed up my NHS dental place to someone else.

NHS dentists are (IMO) stuck between a rock and a hard place - they are often very time restrained, often have to use the cheapest composite for fillings etc and get paid a miniscule amount for procedures therefore whilst they will do the job, they sometimes just can't do a proper job without it costing them loads of money.