AIBU to think that dentists are using covid as an excuse to refuse to take on NHS patients while the same practices will happily take on new private patients?

[ohcarolina2001]

I moved house to a new area just after lockdown with a new baby. Obviously I haven't been able to try to register with a new NHS dentist until recently as they have been closed due to covid.

Now that they are opening up again I used the NHS website to identify local NHS dentists who are supposedly taking on new patients and rang up loads of them, only to be told they aren't taking on new NHS patients at the moment but are taking on new private patients! One even said they would only register my baby (who doesn't have teeth yet!) for NHS dentistry if I joined the practice as a private fee paying patient, which I find absolutely outrageous!

I resent paying for private dentistry since NHS dentistry is subsidised (or free for some people like myself with my maternity exemption certificate) and is perfectly good enough in my experience. I mean they all qualified as dentists and I don't need a perfect Hollywood smile, just healthy teeth!

I am concerned about my teeth as they haven't been checked since mid pregnancy and I am now nearly 6 months postpartum, and teeth are more vulnerable during and after pregnancy. I also lost part of a filling last week so would like to be seen soon (I appreciate I may need to join a waiting list while they deal with more urgent cases and the backlog of existing patients not seen during lockdown) but I am loathe to give in to greedy CF dentists who should be providing NHS services to the British public but are using covid as an excuse to take on more private patients and leave those who can't afford private services with nothing. Is this not hugely discriminatory?

Exasperated, I rang up the NHS England number which is meant to help you if you are having trouble finding NHS dentistry and explained my predicament. I think the person on the line revealed too much as she actually told me that I can't get drilling done as an NHS patient now, but only as a private patient. I don't mind paying any additional costs for PPE for drilling due to covid, but don't see how it's fair that I should have to go private to get the treatment I need. I mean, either drilling is safe or unsafe: there shouldn't be drilling for the rich but not for the poor, right?!

YANBU - dentists are being CFs and the poor are getting screwed as usual
YABU - dentists can charge what they like, the NHS can't force them to provide NHS services, and your teeth can rot in hell if you can't afford private.

I think according to current guidelines NHS dentists can't do any aerosol generating procedures without gas mask like PPE. Which there is now a massive shortage of.
But they can treat private patients at their own risk with only slightly enhanced PPE. Because they can't be enforced the same privately. Which is why they are encouraging private work to get round the legislation. At personal risk.
We all know of the ENT consultant in Derbyshire who died after doing an AGP on a covid patient.

Ah well don’t worry, there won’t be any NHS dentists soon if this carries on much longer, so it will all be equitable and fair and everyone will pay privately.

If the dentist can take on your daughter, then they can take you on instead. They are breaching their nhs contract and as a potential fraud could be reported to the CCG and the GDC.

Go back and say that since they have space for your daughter, they have space for you. They can't choose children over an adult if there's space, which they have confirmed they have.

Ask how many UDAs they have left and where you are in their waiting list if they can't take you. Insist they tell you about the daughter/private thing by email as you want to check it out with the GDC and ccg.

They are deliberately picking and choosing the profitable and easy bits of the contract rather than pushing back.

No I don’t think so. It has been nigh on impossible to find an NHS dentist for years, I have not managed it since 1995.

@Flyonthewall01

My guess would be that there's only a set amount of nhs places in the surgery which is why the cant take you on but can take on private patients.

If they can take the daughter, they have space for the mum instead.

Also, they can take her on the books and then tell her when they will will nhs capacity. Since the contract renewal is in April and we've been under lockdown, I highly doubt they'll have used up all their UDAs which should last 12 months by the beginning of September.

@IceCreamAndCandyfloss

Lots of private dentists only take a certain percentage of NHS patients as it’s not their main business.

Ours is private but will see the children as NHS whilst we are clients. Most dentists that are local to us are private and any NHS ones are usually full with waiting lists.

Your dentist is defrauding the NHS and breaching their contract.

Unless they are a specialist service for certain types of children's care, they CANNOT only accept children as NHS patients. They also are illegally insisting parents are private to subsidise.

Report to the GDC and to the CCG for fraud.

@Nikori

My dad, who is retired, broke a tooth recently. His dentist told him they aren't allowed to do any treatment that requires drilling at the moment, but she could do it privately for 500 pounds or patch it up and he can wait. He chose to patch it up, but I didn't understand that at all.

The dentist lied. Any restrictions would have been for covid reasons.

However, the NHS contract says that if a dental practice (not the one dentist allocated to nhs patients), if the practice offers a service privately it must also be available to nhs patients under nhs conditions.

Anything else is fraud and a breach of contract. Please report to the GDC and the CCG.

@DishRanAwayWithTheSpoon

The amount of NHS work a practice can do is limited and set out in their contract with the NHS.

They cant take on NHS patients willy nilly. If they have fullfilled their quota they cant do anymore NHS work, or rather they can but they wont get paid at all for it.

If they have used up all their UDAs or rationing them (supposed to last 12 months from April), they are meant to tell the patient when they can be seen.

Since we had lockdown, I doubt they used up the full UDA for 20/21 already.

@Bottleup

We got an email from our dentist yesterday sent out to all NHS patients saying we cant see you for the foreseeable future but if you want join our private service (attached the details) we can see you as early as this week. Utterly disgusting. So if you have money, drop by, if you dont, f*ck off.

Reply asking how many UDAs they had in April and how many they have left. Also how arw they managing them, so you know when they plan on restarting their nhs services.

Copy the email to the ccg and the GDC.

They are taking advantage of incredibly weak oversight of the contract and getting away with cherry picking

@Bellevu don’t children only NHS contracts exist anymore then?
They certainly used to be a thing

Their NHS capacity is limited by more than just UDAs now though. There are huge physical limitations as to how many people can be seen. Social distancing, fallow periods etc
That’s why they are only required to see 20% of their NHS contract

I thought children as NHS then private once adult was actually just the system. I had no idea I could even see an nhs dentist as an adult. Certainly our dentists haven't opened yet to any patients.

It's another awful inconsistency within NHS.

Friend has just had root canal work by NHS dentist.

But I dont doubt the stories on here, I've heard a few horror stories myself.

buffy your story is dreadful.

Yabu op. Simply because you've decided this is 'greedy dentists' whilst simultaneously having fuck all understanding of how their contracts with the government work.

Some practices have children and exempt patients only NHS contracts

It would not surprise me. Mine is doing treatment only at present, though seems to be making no distinction. I expect the number of people they can see in a day is limited given needs to disinfect more and not having people in the waiting room.

[quote DottyWott]@Bellevu don’t children only NHS contracts exist anymore then?
They certainly used to be a thing[/quote]
Not for at least a decade, probably closer to 2000. Only very few exist and they would likely be specific to a speciality e.g. disabilities, HIV etc

@DottyWott

Their NHS capacity is limited by more than just UDAs now though. There are huge physical limitations as to how many people can be seen. Social distancing, fallow periods etc That’s why they are only required to see 20% of their NHS contract

They have a duty to give details of how they are managing the UDAs and a timescale.

@D4rwin

I thought children as NHS then private once adult was actually just the system. I had no idea I could even see an nhs dentist as an adult. Certainly our dentists haven't opened yet to any patients.

Nope. It's dentist gaming the system as kids are less complicated. They get paid for low stress work and can pressure parents into private care.

Dodgy and fraudulent.

@DishRanAwayWithTheSpoon

Some practices have children and exempt patients only NHS contracts

A handful across England.

I bet if you asked the ccg which practices had these, they would have a different view to the number of dentists falsely claiming this.

NHS work is running at a loss
This, basically.
You can't be mad at people not working for free, same as you don't send your DC to a private school if you don't pay the fees, or don't feel entitled to visit the paying exhibits when you visit a free entry museum.

@BuffyTheBuffetSlayer sorry I thought it was your dentist who was refusing, my mistake

I would keep pestering the orthodontist, you should be at the top of their priority list to be seen. Ring everyday if you must. Theres no reason they cant remove or adapt the wires at a minimum to get your DD out of pain. She cant have the teeth removed while she has braces on them

Did the orthodontist demonstrate oral hygeine to your dd? Because it sounds like the pins are for elastics, which are always used after jaw surgery and are cleanable. But you need to use single tufted brushes/tepes etc.

Ours is private but will see the children as NHS whilst we are clients. Most dentists that are local to us are private and any NHS ones are usually full with waiting lists.

We are in this situation and have been since moving here - every body with a reposniblity has a list with NHS dentist on it with usually one or two names - different ones but when you ring they haven't taken any NHS patients on for years.

We were apparently really lucky to find one who'd take the kids on as NHS- it's a city wide issue.

DD1 orthodontist has seen her and DS - NHS - got seen by dentist for a problem otherwise they aren't back up and running yet even for DH or me despite being private.

I called my dentist where I've been registered for 25 years as an NHS patient as I had a slight toothache. Was told they weren't seeing NHS until at least October but they were happy to see me privately! Up yours, I said!

@Laffinalltheway I contacted my NHS dentist as I've got a problem with a crown but they won't see me but will be in contact when they can. I have no idea when that will be and they annoying thing is I'll need the work done privately by them anyway.