Is this normal re speech?

[MulchLover]

A child I am close to but not my own (sorry to be vague - trying not to be outing) turns 2 in about 6 weeks. I’m beginning to have some concerns about her speech.

She has very few if any really identifiable words. She can say mama and dada, but tends to use them to refer to all people and not just her parents. She can make a limited number of sounds / words - like she will make a ‘brrr’ sound to imitate a car and a miaow sound when interacting with her cat, but she can’t / doesn’t say ‘cat’ or ‘car’. She uses gestures (pointing etc) and inarticulate noises to indicate what she wants, and she can say ‘at’ when pointing which we think means ‘that’. She makes a lot of noises but very little that is identifiable as speech.

I’m just a bit concerned that by now she should have more language than this. Her parents have mentioned it to me too as they’re aware of it and getting a bit concerned, but I don’t have kids of my own so I don’t know if this is in the normal range or if she should have more language than this by now.

Does this sound normal / ok, or does it sound like she might have a speech delay?

Thank you!

My DD did not have 50 words at 2 at all. Probably 5 to 10. I was worried I had her hearing tested they said she may have issues hearing sounds when there is background noise. She did start to speak more and was very unclear until she was about 5, she was also shy. I spent a lot of time reading to her and always asked her to look at my face when I was speaking. She’s now 16 and doing very well but I wish I had pushed harder for SLT at the time as I was worried about her development but felt a bit fobbed off!

@steppemum really? Oh dear. I'm not sure how best to broach that with DN's mum.

DN is very much 'into herself' and is quite content on her own for a long time just pottering about, not interacting or saying anything. The others will all be playing together or close to each other and she's off by herself. Always. I've never seen a child like it. She does smile and respond to her name but just fixes you with a silent stare.

Her mum's a teacher so I would have thought would know what to look for, but she is also very blasé and manãna about life.

At that age my daughter was the same. Within about three months of turning 2 she was speaking at the same level as her 3.5 year old sister, having easily understood conversations with adults. Her cousins and friends who are similar ages all developed speech at vastly different paces. It seemed to be the one development area that was completely different for them all.

@campas I'm not showing off. I'm just suggesting that it would be a good idea to seek some SALT intervention as it does sound like the child's speech is really quite behind. The earlier the better if you suspect support may be needed.

It can be slightly different with boys but my DS was nowhere near 50 words at 24months. Knew about 20 I would say although not all easy to interpret.

Now he is not even 2.5 yet and knows probably several hundred (can't even count them), says complicated dinosaur names, 6 word sentences etc etc

So has gone 0-60 in less than 6 months. If concerned they should speak to HV tho.

No words at all would be a worry, but a few words plus good understanding - where’s the dog? when looking at a book, go and get your shoes - is within the normal range.

If she doesn’t have significantly more words, plus putting two words together (more juice) by 2.5 then definitely ask HV for a referral.

My daughter didn’t babble or even make a sound until she was 35 months. She was behind with speech but her understanding was fine. She was referred for speech therapy. When she started reception she was still very difficult to understand. She’s 14 now and fine but does have dyslexia and us very behind her peers academically. She’s very artistic and musical though and has bags of common sense x

My DD is very similar. NHS won't put her on the waiting list until she turns 2 (very soon now but I've been asking for months) and then its a 6-12 month wait. I've got an assessment booked for private speech therapy next week, been waiting since May for that but they've only just opened back up. I do SO much reading with her, talk to her all day long, play with her one on one most of the day as I'm a SAHM. She's very bright - walked at 10m, was fully potty trained by 18m, so quick at puzzles, games etc and understands everything you say, does lots of sign language etc but does not say a word. By her age my oldest was speaking in full sentences and could sing full songs, recite stories by heart etc. I know all kids are different but it's such a worry, I don't want her to struggle

RememberBlazinSquad
Is your DN a first child? I think when it is a second or third you spot the gap more quickly.
I am also a teacher, in a class of kids aged 5+ I can very quickly spot a child who is not behaving/working within a normal range for their age. In fact when dd2 was in reception and year 1 I used to help out with phonics/readers and I knew one of the boys probably had some kind of delay/learning difficulty. I did say very gently, that he wasn't picking up the phonics even with the extra help, not like the others, but nothing was done.
In year 2 he was diagnosed as badly dyslexic, parents took him orivately for testing. I often wonder if I should have dropped a hint to parents (who I knew).

BUT I would not be the same with pre-school or with teens, it is about lots of experience, means your 'eye' is trained.
All that to say her Mum might not notice

It could be the sign of a problem, it could also be perfectly normal. My DS barely spoke at all until he was over 3. We worried ourselves sick. He's 8 now and his teacher says he has an advanced vocabulary. Sometimes it's just the kid.

@ShinyGreenElephant

My DD is very similar. NHS won't put her on the waiting list until she turns 2 (very soon now but I've been asking for months) and then its a 6-12 month wait. I've got an assessment booked for private speech therapy next week, been waiting since May for that but they've only just opened back up. I do SO much reading with her, talk to her all day long, play with her one on one most of the day as I'm a SAHM. She's very bright - walked at 10m, was fully potty trained by 18m, so quick at puzzles, games etc and understands everything you say, does lots of sign language etc but does not say a word. By her age my oldest was speaking in full sentences and could sing full songs, recite stories by heart etc. I know all kids are different but it's such a worry, I don't want her to struggle

You sound very concerned, and not saying any words is unusual. It is great that she understands what you say, that means that her language comprehension is there, she uses sign language, how many signs does she have? That can be a substitute for words, if it is working for her. So, in fact if she has 20 signs, she has 20 words.

Does she make any sounds at all? Does she cry, laugh, squeal, scream? Did she do baby babbling? Does she have babble conversation with you (you know, where they bring you something and go babble babble babble, as if they are sayign something to you)? Does she make sounds, eg bbbbb or ddddd or sssss?
Does she use sounds ot get attention - point and squeal?

All these are pre-talking skills. It is useful to see where she is at on that scale.

But do remember that the 'norm' at 2 is having about 50 words, just because her siblings was talking in sentences, singing songs etc doesn't mean she will. Because the sibling was ahead of themselves, the gap probably appears bigger than it actually is.

When she says 'at' (that) do her patents then try to encourage yo yo say the word? Ie say juice- you want juice? Say juice? And repeat juice at face level a couple of times, or toast, biscuit, Nana(banana)n milk general easy words. Repetition makes it easier to learn. Nursery rhymes every day repeated ate designed to encourage speech development ensure the child sees upu facd up face and doing them slowly and clearly every day.
Fies she definitely seem able to hear? Stand behind directly and to each side and whisper at different levels, check she turns around.
As long as she starts to make consistent sounds like woof woof for dog, moo for cow, hi, byebye you're doing well.

If the child uses a a soother during the daytime, it need to stop. My son went for his 2 year check up and I said I was concerned about his lack of speech. The nurse told me to get rid of the soother as that was giving him a reason not to bother talking. I went cold turkey with the soother then and there, she was so right. Had an explosion of talking over the next few weeks. I do regret not getting rid of the soother sooner but what can you do.

I am an SLT for info.
If there are concerns, ask the child's parents to contact local SLT department. I'm in Scotland so not sure what process is like where you are and how services are operating elsewhere but we have an open door 'referral' process where parents can call and we can arrange a video call appointment or give advice as appropriate.

The whole 50 words milestone annoys us sometimes as all children develop at different rates...It doesn't necessarily mean there's a delay/disorder and they don't necessarily need direct therapy sessions. It's all about empowering parents to support their children in their communication skills as they spend most time with them (more useful than 30-45 minute sessions once or twice a week with a stranger).
Also important to look at what impact the lack of words is having...can the child make their needs known by pointing or taking parents by the hand? Is child getting frustrated etc?

@steppemum thanks for your reply. She says no, aga (we don't know what it means but she says it a lot haha) and makes a wide variety of animal noises. She has about 10 useful signs (up, more etc) plus signs for animals and she can do all the actions to lots of songs. What worries me the most is that she used to say daddy and cat, and doesnt say either any more, ever. For a while she said 'yamyam' to mean either mummy or milk, thats stopped too. Its like she can only handle one spoken word at a time. I've read that forgetting previous skills can be a sign of ASD, but she only does it with spoken words and has great retention for other skills. I try not to stress but I think its definitely a case for professional support.

This is such a useful thread. Thank you to the posters who have shared ideas and strategies (and no thanks at all to any who saw it as an opportunity for a stealth boast). We are starting to become a bit concerned about DS’s speech, which is compounded by the fact that he has been diagnosed with hyper mobility and needed a lot of support to start walking independently at 23 months. I’m concerned that they may be connected.

Thanks @steppemum no my niece has a super bright, super capable older sister aged 5. It's a very stark difference between them looking back. She also has a cousin almost the same age and they are naturally compared, not in a bad way exactly, but they are almost the same age so people expect them to be quite similar. The cousin is able to communicate quite complex imaginative ideas and emotions already and my niece can't ask for simple things like a cup or even say mama or dada. It worries me but I'm hoping one day it will all click for her.

I think 2 is to young to worry. Most speech therapy has been cancelled due to covid anyway. I have 3 children and they’ve all started speaking at different ages. My first was not saying much at 2 but at 3 was fluent. My second child only started speaking properly at 4.5 years. My youngest has a good vocabulary at 23 months.