Is this normal re speech?

[MulchLover]

A child I am close to but not my own (sorry to be vague - trying not to be outing) turns 2 in about 6 weeks. I’m beginning to have some concerns about her speech.

She has very few if any really identifiable words. She can say mama and dada, but tends to use them to refer to all people and not just her parents. She can make a limited number of sounds / words - like she will make a ‘brrr’ sound to imitate a car and a miaow sound when interacting with her cat, but she can’t / doesn’t say ‘cat’ or ‘car’. She uses gestures (pointing etc) and inarticulate noises to indicate what she wants, and she can say ‘at’ when pointing which we think means ‘that’. She makes a lot of noises but very little that is identifiable as speech.

I’m just a bit concerned that by now she should have more language than this. Her parents have mentioned it to me too as they’re aware of it and getting a bit concerned, but I don’t have kids of my own so I don’t know if this is in the normal range or if she should have more language than this by now.

Does this sound normal / ok, or does it sound like she might have a speech delay?

Thank you!

The first ever language we worked on with my son was choosing, and asking for 'more'.

'Red or pink yoghurt?'
'Blue or green t shirt?'

They don't have to answer verbally to begin with, but choosing things themselves is really good.

I would be worried about this and would want to get a hearing check and SALT intervention ASAP. I thought it was 50 words by 18 months rather than by 2. My child was speaking in full sentences long before 2 so I may have higher expectations than average but what you've described sounds like very limited speech compared to other children I know as well. It could be something as simple as needing grommets.

[quote MulchLover]@IHateCoronavirus

Thank you so much, that’s really helpful advice.

I think lockdown has not helped her - she’s only had her parents to interact with, and both of them have had to balance it with working. She was supposed to start nursery in March but it was delayed and she hasn’t started yet. So she hasn’t had the opportunities to develop her language that she might have had if she had been seeing friends / family / nursery etc.[/quote]
This is really an misunderstanding.
Seeing family and friends and nursery would not improve her language development. Being at home with Mum and Dad is plenty for her language development, unless they have been sticking her in front of TV for long hours, in which case that will have had an effect.

I love the socks example up thread. That is exactly how to deal with language delay. Repeat, repeat rather than long waffly conversations.

@ellenpartridge

I would be worried about this and would want to get a hearing check and SALT intervention ASAP. I thought it was 50 words by 18 months rather than by 2. My child was speaking in full sentences long before 2 so I may have higher expectations than average but what you've described sounds like very limited speech compared to other children I know as well. It could be something as simple as needing grommets.

Completely not helpful and your 'facts' are wrong.

It's 50 words by 2.

Don't come onto someone's thread to show off. It's crass.

• This is really an misunderstanding. Seeing family and friends and nursery would not improve her language development. Being at home with Mum and Dad is plenty for her language development, unless they have been sticking her in front of TV for long hours, in which case that will have had an effect.*

Indeed, my son has basically just had me and his dad and made excellent progress over this time at home.

Nursery is generally frenetic with less one on one time.

That’s a fair point. They definitely haven’t just been sticking her in front of a tv but she has probably had more tv time than they would like because they have both been working full time from home. So they’ve had to juggle that when she would otherwise have been with a grandparent or in nursery. They do speak to her a lot and do lots of reading / activities etc, but like many parents they’ve found the last few months a hard balancing act.

[quote MulchLover]@IHateCoronavirus

Thank you so much, that’s really helpful advice.

I think lockdown has not helped her - she’s only had her parents to interact with, and both of them have had to balance it with working. She was supposed to start nursery in March but it was delayed and she hasn’t started yet. So she hasn’t had the opportunities to develop her language that she might have had if she had been seeing friends / family / nursery etc.[/quote]
The situation has not helped many. Little consistent pockets frequently throughout the day of high quality interaction will do wonders. Life based conversation will be relevant. Even if one of them breaks to make a cup of tea or go to the toilet, there is an opportunity for language rich play. It does not need to be time consuming.

@icedaisy

Oh really *@campas* that's kind thank you. I did not know that. Well in her case I would say she is good at that as any animal she will do. Not the name of it but the sound. Only really interested in animals nothing else!

this is important, as I said up thread, any sound that the child uses consistently counts as a word.

So 'oof' for dog, and 'icky' for drink and 'naw naw' for their cuddly, as long as they use the same sound for it, it is a word.
Also, it doesn't matter if someone else can't understand it, as long as the parent can understand it. Then is counts as a word.

Once you add up names, (people, pets, teddies) household items, (plate, spoon) food (drink, banana) there are often more words/sounds than you think

@ellenpartridge

I would be worried about this and would want to get a hearing check and SALT intervention ASAP. I thought it was 50 words by 18 months rather than by 2. My child was speaking in full sentences long before 2 so I may have higher expectations than average but what you've described sounds like very limited speech compared to other children I know as well. It could be something as simple as needing grommets.

No. 50 words by 2. Full sentences highly, highly unusual. 2-3 word sentences are common.

My DS was really late with his speech, probably 2.5 before he really started making any kind of sense. Now he’s fine and won’t shut up. I wouldn’t start worrying too much yet.

Thanks @steppemum this is all really interesting and helpful.

I suppose that makes sense as woof whilst a sound is also a word.

I've found the choosing examples helpful as well. I do this a huge amount. More because I'm own my own so much so I turn it into a game, which snack, which top, please chose mummy a nappy for you, etc.

@icedaisy

Thanks *@steppemum* this is all really interesting and helpful.

I suppose that makes sense as woof whilst a sound is also a word.

I've found the choosing examples helpful as well. I do this a huge amount. More because I'm own my own so much so I turn it into a game, which snack, which top, please chose mummy a nappy for you, etc.

This is all lovely stuff. It will help postpone tantrums too as basic choices help them feel in control more.

Both mine hardly spoke at 2, to extent that I was extremely concerned with DS1, especially when comparing to other kids the same age. Then when they both turned 2 the flood gates opened, and at 11 and 13 they have fantastic vocabulary (when they are not using text speak) and are both still voracious readers. So definitely get your friend to mention to the health professionals but also emphasise there is such a huge variation in development. And don't worry, speaking early is not in any way an indication of genius IQs.

And don't worry, speaking early is not in any way an indication of genius IQs.

Despite what nct mums think

I have exactly the same worries with my niece. She has just turned 2 and has no recognisable words. She doesn't even make sounds really. She is so different to her sister and cousins around the same age. She was very slow to walk as well and only started walking regularly a few months ago.

Here we have 27 month HV checks, but they are by telephone and I am a bit worried her mum will play down any concerns to the HV, she is the sort of person who doesn't really worry about things. I don't want to interfere but it does play on my mind.

@Haworthia did your child catch up on their own accord or did you have to wait for therapy to be available?

Ultimately his speech issues were because he’s autistic. His speech did improve on its own (because SALT input has been poor to non-existent, but that’s another thread) but he’s still - aged 5 - not on a level with his peers, both in terms of clarity of speech and the way he structures speech.

Many thanks everyone, I’m collating all the responses. Sounds like it’s definitely worth mentioning to her HV, but that there are things we can do and that there’s a lot of range in ‘normal’ anyway. So hopefully she’s on the brink of a big explosion!

DD had less than 10 words/sounds at 2yo - no mama or dada or animal sounds, but decent comprehension. Had our 2yo check and a referral for SALT as it was obvious she was behind, still waiting to see the speech team but probably since 2yo 4mo we've had a huge explosion in speech. I can't get a word in sometimes. It's pretty common for a delay and for them to catch up - I had a delay too as a child.

Great advice from @steppemum and @IHateCoronavirus here, loads of repeating back and reinforcing. one other word of caution... they really do take everything in! Which can be hilarious in a highly inappropriate way. ..
My youngest once called her sister a ‘cheeky bellend’ in front of the teacher at school drop off for the eldest when she was waaaay too young (I think 3 ish maybe). Luckily, I doubt anyone else could make it out clearly but I was mortified! She definitely picked up a number of choice phrases long before she could talk to repeat them back then threw them in to conversation when she got older!

Sounds like my boy and the HV was not concerned at the 2 year check. He's now nearing 3 and in the last six months his speech has come on so much. He was never referred anywhere, but we were aware and keeping an eye on it. He seems to have been quietly learning and gained lots of words at a later date. Whilst it should be noted and an eye kept on it, I don't think there is cause for concern at 2 as long as there are some sounds that are repeated and there's no evidence of hearing issues. We also saw a consistent improvement month by month after 2... Had we not seen any improvement, even a small one, we would have self referred. Also I tend to find with my boy that some of the words he was actually saying, but his pronunciation was more of an issue, so I simply didn't understand that he was actually using a word.

ican.org.uk/i-cans-talking-point/parents/ages-and-stages/

Great advice from @steppemum and @IHateCoronavirus here, loads of repeating back and reinforcing Yes. There's also a lot of anecdotal stuff on this thread that isn't helpful. Always keep an eye on hearing.

I did just want to say, while it is within the range of normal, and no need ot worry just yet, it is really important to

1. be aware and keep an eye on it, there should be forward progress even if slow
2. check hearing as soon as there is an opportunity
3. mention it to HV when you can. Better to start a referal to SALT and then cancel than leave a referral for 6 months and then have to wait 6 months.

RememberBlazinSquad I'm really sorry, but I find your story more of a concern and would definitely want a referal for a development check.

My middle son was coming up to 3 and his total vocabulary was cccrrrrkkk. The health visitor was just about to refer him for speech therapy when I came home to hello mummy , can I have drink? Clear as day. All children develop speech at different rates and it's only , how can I say this without sounding rude , children who have some sort of disability who never learn to speak.

@goose1964

My middle son was coming up to 3 and his total vocabulary was cccrrrrkkk. The health visitor was just about to refer him for speech therapy when I came home to hello mummy , can I have drink? Clear as day. All children develop speech at different rates and it's only , how can I say this without sounding rude , children who have some sort of disability who never learn to speak.

well, yes maybe, but some kids have, for example, glue ear, and need a lot of help to get clear pronunciation.