universal basic income

[elmouno]

Will it happen?

Universal basic income. I know it's been introduced in some other places. Would you support it? Just some free money given to everyone despite their means?

Please don't get me wrong, this would not replace anything. It would be in addition to what you already have.

YANBU: I could take an extra £1000 per month to save the economy from 2020 and impending robot job annihilation.
YABU: We could never pay for that and there are far too many haters who will never let it happen.

The Poll Tax was a "good idea" and widely supported.

That it when the idea was in it's infancy and the proposal was something like £150 per adult.

When they finally did the sums (long after it had been given the go ahead), the mandarins were apparently surprised how many people would be exempt or qualify for discounts, so the bills appeared at more like £400 per adult for those who weren't eligible for discounts/exemptions.

That's what caused the Poll Tax riots. It turned out to be not quite as good as it seemed because of dodgy Maths.

I fear the same would happen with UBI leading to loss of some/all tax free personal allowance and higher tax rates, so loads of people (probably the qualified/experienced workers) wouldn't be any better off, or even worse off, whilst others were farting around in garden sheds painting flowers or making crooked pots.

This is why I think it will only happen if the alternative of not doing it looks more likely to bring about serious unrest.

It would stop the fact that some of us are taxed up to our eyeballs while some get long term free money for nothing.

DD needs 1:1 care all her working hours, and 3:1 at night. Even the DWP accepts she can't work, just on the papers - they don't call her in for a Work Capability Assessment! Would you expect people like her to starve to death?

I support UBI to iron out what I consider to be anomalies, stigma and downright punitive policies in the benefits system:

1. Carers allowance is £67.25 per week - Matt Hancock admitted on Question Time, he could not live on £94 per week, so why do they think carers could live on even less?
2. ESA basic rate for assessment group £58.90 per week under 25, £74.35 over 25. Ditto wrt Matt Hancock. Up to £113.55 if you are in the support group. How can a 24 year old live more cheaply than a 26 year old, if they have no parental support?
3. State pension if you retired before 2016 £134.25 per week; "new" pension £175.20 per week

(I am aware of PIP - but it can be very difficult to get, particularly for mental health problems, which can still make working consistently practically impossible)

IMO, they ought to decide on how much it takes to live a basic life in this country, and pay all people, who can't work whether through old age, disability, caring or redundancy as a stop gap until getting another job, that as a UBI - with DLA/Attendence Allowance to cover the extra costs of being disabled or old (deemed to be £550 pcm on average for the disabled, and probably the same for old age.)

Never gonna happen - this country is too full of people who would rather cut off their own hands than risk someone else getting something for nothing.

I like the idea, those who we are currently spending monday on trying to force them into jobs they neither want, nor can actually do, would cost us less than they do now.

Employers would have to actually treat people well, because now they need to attract a work force who CAN say 'actually, stuff you' if demands are too great/unreasonable etc.

You would still need a benefits system on top for the disabled/long term sick, but it is possible to do that more efficiently than we currently do AND most of the disability benefit fraud is generated by those who vehemently don't want to work - with them being paid not to, the effort required to get extra money won't really be worth it for most of them, so there'd be fewer fraudulant applicants.

It would make it easier for people to work fewer hours, job share, volunteer.

It would make it much easier for people to be self employed, work from home etc.

I think (and im fairly sure where its been trialled this has been the case) it would lead to people having a far healthier work/life balance and it would really kill toxic work environments.

*money, not Monday!

Yes, yes, yes, in a heartbeat.

Reductio ad absurdum: Lets's pretend that everything is automated to the point where the UK has an awesome economy but there are only 1,000 jobs that need to be done in the whole country. Would anyone argue that therefore only 1,000 people should be able to make a living? Maybe euthanize the rest as there was no work for them to do? No! Of course not. Clearly if the country was thriving then everyone should be able to be supported by that in some way.

So why should it be any different if there were "only" 1 million jobs, rather than the 30 million that currently keep people in employment. Would you then argue that those not employed shouldn't benefit? What about if there were 20 million jobs? Where would the line be.

I think there is a massive shift in thinking needed, where we would start to see it is not only OK, but even desirable for people to have leisure time and a decent life without "earning" it.

It would move us away from this ridiculous consumer culture where we are all drive back to the office so we can be good little consumers and buy a sandwich at lunch.

@DarkMintChocolate you raise such good points about the absurdities of the 'price points' for being a carer and for being disabled and/or older, and how difficult it is for people with disabilities to claim their legal entitlements.

The cost of the civil service machinery for disallowing perfectly legal PIP claims is vast.

Your YANBU and YABU conditions are mutually compatible.