universal basic income

[elmouno]

Will it happen?

Universal basic income. I know it's been introduced in some other places. Would you support it? Just some free money given to everyone despite their means?

Please don't get me wrong, this would not replace anything. It would be in addition to what you already have.

YANBU: I could take an extra £1000 per month to save the economy from 2020 and impending robot job annihilation.
YABU: We could never pay for that and there are far too many haters who will never let it happen.

Bet you it would be based on citizenship rather than tax residence and that would be another unlubricated fuck in the arse of non citizen tax payers😂

I think universal basic income is an excellent idea.

If we had a government with vision and courage we could have UBI now, the time is right. Unfortunately we have a government incapable of moving outside it's narrow paradigm of what constitutes value and a good society.

I think it’s a lovely idea. Everyone has enough to cover the basics and then works to cover their training, luxuries, extras. Gives far more motivation for work than long hours and still not enough to cover basics. Would save lots of admin too if everyone just got a payment.

I would suggest 9k per year basic income from the age of 18. 1k per child.
All income up to 20k tax free. Thereafter, all income, including capital gains taxed at 50%. (A modest stocks and shares yearly ISA allowance for savings)
Inheritance tax also set at 50% on anything over 20k.
Close all offshore tax havens.
Fund a decent health and social care system. Fix the climate crisis and reduce inequality.

Would you support it? Just some free money given to everyone despite their means?

So, the Chief Exec of the company I work for earns just under a million a year, he gets it too?

No, I don't support that at all.

I would suggest 9k per year basic income from the age of 18. 1k per child

That’s less than £200 per week for a single parent & child. How would they pay the rent? £1k per child is less than child benefit currently - would that be paid in addition? If so, that parent would be over the £20k threshold and paying tax @ 50%

20k a tear tax free? Fir sitting on my arse! Sign me up I've rarely earnt much more than that. My dh would prob still work a couple of days a week instead of 5 or 6 and we'd be laughing. My ds works a dirty hard manual job for a great wage but he could go part time in fact halve his hours and his wife wouldn't have to work at all. My dd would probably still want to use her doctorate, 8 years of work wouldn't be wasted but she'd probably take 4 or 5 years off to have kids. Sounds great.

• So, the Chief Exec of the company I work for earns just under a million a year, he gets it too?

No, I don't support that at all.*

No, you adjust personal tax allowances, so if a CEO earning millions gets UBI, they just pay the same amount in tax - it has no effect on their take home income!

I saw Sturgeon saying she wants to do this, but I don't see how it's even possible. Where is this money coming from? Taxes won't raise enough. Does everyone get £1000 extra a month? No matter what you earn? That just seems stupid.

No matter what you earn? That just seems stupid.

As I said, no personal tax allowances!

I guess there would still have to be a benefits system to help out the people who accidentally blow all their Universal Income on booze, fags, tattoos, gambling, and big council tellies.

I am very much in favour of UBI. The difference it could make to people with chronic illnesses, single parent families, and people living in high unemployment areas is huge. The idea that "everyone has to work" is somewhat flawed.

I think ultimately it (or something like it) has to happen - the way technology is going there will be fewer and fewer jobs (at least as we know them) and we will need to drastically rethink the way society works. It will require a huge amount of adjustment in attitudes and preconceptions. A massive crisis like Covid could be just the catalyst that's needed, if any Government was bold enough to pioneer it.

No doubt it will change the very structure of society. I imagine there could end up being two 'classes' of people, as there will still need to be people to do specific jobs (both highly skilled and unskilled), and they will need to be well paid enough to lead a substantially different life to those who choose not to work for money. Done properly though, everyone will benefit.

@LimaFoxtrotCharlie

I would suggest 9k per year basic income from the age of 18. 1k per child

That’s less than £200 per week for a single parent & child. How would they pay the rent? £1k per child is less than child benefit currently - would that be paid in addition? If so, that parent would be over the £20k threshold and paying tax @ 50%

No the idea is that would be it. The parent could also work to get additional income on top though.

I think there would be huge benefits to this as already outlined by pp.

I also think it would have been a far more practical and cheaper solution than the furlough system as it wouldn’t have been open to fraud and would have protected all those who were forgotten eg self-employed.

The other thing I think would be great is to follow the Danish model for those with chronic illnesses and disabilities whereby they can work the hours that they are able to do so without detriment to their health and the government top it up to a full time wage.

I stopped reading when the Tory bashing started. Knobs.

I’ve always had two specific theoretical objections to this plan. One is that it wouldn’t cater for the huge disparity in housing costs between different areas in the Uk, and the other is that although on paper it’s gender neural, in practice it might systematically lead mothers to opt out of the workforce (fine for them on an individual choice level but not necessarily great for society).

However if a WFH revolution levels the playing field between regions of the UK that might eventually deal with the housing costs issue.

Remember that one of the big selling points of this scheme is that it enables you to dismantle much of the bureaucracy around the benefit system. Every bit of adjustment you have to make for people with additional needs and costs whittles that advantage away, which is why it needs to go in at a high level to get full advantage of cost savings. However even a relatively low level would be sufficient to give a safety net against Universal Credit delays and hence give people on low incomes more flexibility to take temporary jobs, which would be a huge advantage.

At the moment we have a benefits system that’s supposed to ensure people have enough to cover their basic needs. It’s not perfect but a “universal basic income” would just make it worse. To pay for it we would need to tax people more heavily- why should some people pay more so others can not bother to work? If we are going to increase taxes why not invest in education or the NHS? if we want to help people retrain, why not pay them grants? It’s a bad idea.

Not financially possible.

Also the idea that it would make a difference mostly to single parents and those with chronic illness is wrong. Essentially what would happen Under UBI is that everyone gets benefits and that needs to be paid for. That is going to make life much more difficult for those who were previously targeted for benefits like single parents and those unable to work.

One problem with the current benefits system is there is a huge stigma attached to it which has an effect on the mental and physical health of those claiming, making it more difficult to get back to work and also to make healthy choices. Removing that stigma would be hugely positive. The effect of increasing the tax threshold would mean that working would be encouraged for people on low incomes - in fact they would be the kind of flexible workforce we need now, but would have UBI instead of benefits. Middle earners would be roughly similar, high earners would be taxed more. It could easily be paid for, it's a question of perspective and what we value.
For kids - you're right it would need thought through more. (I am not a politician or a policy person, I work with people on low incomes and have been reading about UBI and thinking about it is all)
FWIW we would lose out under the system I described but I want my children to grow up in a fairer society, so would be happy to pay more tax for a better future.

Also re housing - clearly the housing market is totally dysfunctional and needs sorted out by massive building of social housing and stopping foreign investment buys etc etc.
UBI would have to go along with that and some effort to address regional inequalities it won't work as intended until housing is less astronomically priced in certain areas.

I think there's problems with a UBI.

But that said, we cannot have an economy where 20% of the workforce is efficient enough to produce all the goods and services that everyone needs. And that's where we might be headed, thanks to automation, AI and other transformative technologies.

We don't have a working society if we don't cut most people into its success, simple as that. If that means direct wealth transfer payments, then so be it, but we simply have no option but to solve that problem when it eventually arises, which I think it will.

Who will then be doing all the jobs like, caring, shop assistants, emptying bins, cleaning, driving public transport etc etc etc ????
If everyone can just get this benefit, why would anyone work in those basic paid jobs ????
Not everyone can start new businesses or work creatively in the arts field.
It’s a disaster waiting to happen for society, when all the low paid jobs, which no one else wants to do are left vacant.