To just make a point about how hard teachers work.

[Poppadumpony]

Just inspired by comments on another thread.

I know I am not being unreasonable but I just want to say it!

Teachers keep 30 children with diverse needs safe, happy, occupied and learning from 9-3pm.

Teachers typically plan and prepare for 5 lessons a day. This involves finding, adapting or creating the resources for each lesson. (Average KS2 lesson might need: introductory powerpoint, items for practical demonstration, 3x sets of worksheets and a game). This prep all happens after 3pm.

Teachers need to mark and provide feedback on all the work that said 30 diverse children produce during the 6 hours they are in school (30x5= 150) every day. This also happens after 3pm.

Teachers attend staff meetings, discuss children with parents and create educational displays in the classroom. This happens after 3pm.

At any one time, a teacher is also likely to be doing one of the following: planning a class trip, preparing an assembly, preparing a school concert, running a club, writing a scheme of work. This all happens after 3pm.

Teachers work incredibly long, hard hours. Yes, they get the holidays. Yes other professions do overtime.

I am just pointing out that really only a third of a teacher’s work happens between 9-3 (high-energy work) and there is a huge amount of additional work to be done every single day, in preperation for the next. The pace is phenomenal, and there is zero flexibility in terms of hours.

Teaching is a very hard job. It’s why I left after 6 years, I just couldn’t hack it. I’ve done a PhD so I am not afraid of hard work.

Teaching is not for the faint hearted.
Those who manage to do it well and achieve a family life at the same time should be running this country, and I’m not even joking.

Past tense. Teachers did do this before March... lets see how they get on now the kids are going back after 6 months.

I think jobs like teaching where you are “on” and essentially performing are more tiring. I am more tired after seeing clients than sitting at my desk drafting (solicitor). Maybe that’s the reason some teachers claim their job harder than others

Teachers who feel that hard done by need to stop moaning and get out.

Yes, probably. But if every fed-up teacher left the profession (rather than just the many that already do), it would be a total disaster. There already aren't enough teachers. So do you really think they should leave, or did you just mean 'put up or shut up'?

But they aren't going to get out are they? Theres a reason most put up with the things they whinge about and coast into an early retirement. Because it's a chusty number and they know they won't get the pay and conditions elsewhere

Oh stop being goady Clarence

@MsTSwift

I think jobs like teaching where you are “on” and essentially performing are more tiring. I am more tired after seeing clients than sitting at my desk drafting (solicitor). Maybe that’s the reason some teachers claim their job harder than others

I think this is probably true. You are essentially performing for 6 hours a day, trying to regulate 30 other humans, often trying to foresee behaviour kicking off and diffusing it before it escalates, whilst also trying to actually deliver a good quality lesson. That is exhausting.

And then at 3:30pm when they have all gone home you begin your 'second job'.

I'm not saying teaching is the hardest job out there at all, and I hate the FB teachers with their 'woe is us' memes. But I do think that the vast majority of people who had never taught have no idea what the job entails, but think they do because they were once at school themselves, and that can stick in the craw a bit!

I had a career before teaching. I wanted to be a teacher at uni, but didn't want to be tied to the holidays because all I wanted to do was travel. So I had a job where I could buy extra holiday entitlement, and travelled loads.

When it was time for a change, I took an almost 90% pay cut to be a TA for a year to check things out. I hated being tied to the holidays, but loved the job. Trained to be a teacher.

I'm on SLT in a big primary now, and still earn only around 40% of what I did in my previous career, but mostly like the job and am quite good at it. I work fricking hard, but honestly I wouldn't put up with the work demands during term time if I didn't get the holidays. Now I have a child too, the holidays have me putting up with a lot of stuff.

If it was the same total workload with the same holiday allowance I officially had in my old career (6 weeks), the salary and expectations would be broadly similar to a middle management job. But I'd still earn loads less.

I've got a 5 year plan to get out again, mostly because teaching in this country is already hard due to political input and lack of funding, and that is only going to get worse.

@ClarencesMum

But they aren't going to get out are they? Theres a reason most put up with the things they whinge about and coast into an early retirement. Because it's a chusty number and they know they won't get the pay and conditions elsewhere

You do realise that teachers are leaving the profession in unprecedented numbers don't you?

I don't get paid overtime

Nor do teachers.

I'm a teacher. My term time workload will be 60 hours a week until half term. Hopefully slightly less after as we get used to new routines.

I don't think I work harder than any other profession. My salary is pretty decent. I appreciate the job security.

My main gripe is people assume I work 9-3 every day.

@ClarencesMum

They are getting out in droves! 1 in 3 teachers has left teaching within 5 years of completing training.

I don't really understand why anyone in a job deserves more credit than any other. I think these posts get people's backs up because it's so common to see a teacher on mn saying it.

I am currently working right now to ensure a big report goes off on time tomorrow. I only work pt I thought it was finished on Friday but noooo I get an email earlier telling me someone's fucked up on something can I go back over it. I wouldn't mind but I'm also sewing my dc name labels on (school forces us to do this) and trying to work out where I drop my dc off with the new corona rules that have been implemented.
I won't get paid for this overtime, I won't get a pat on the back, I'll just get a where's the report in the morning.

I just feel so lucky to have a job. My job is so crap and boring but it's a job. It's pays money. It's secure. Many aren't lucky enough this year to have this. YABU

I don’t think many people think teachers work 9-3.

I work in a residential care home for older adults with dementia. Very tough. Physically and mentally. Also very poorly paid.

Lots of jobs are hard without the pay or pensions that teachers receive.

@Poppadumpony thank you for starting this thread. It's lovely to hear some positivity even if some PPs don't agree, I realise lots of professions work equally hard in terms of hours etc... but what I think is unique in teaching is the pressure you often have from three directions - all the stakeholders- parents, senior leadership/governors and dealing with the children themselves who in secondary can sometimes be very difficult. But it is a privileged job which can be extremely rewarding. But I get why so many people are leaving or were pre-covid.

I have no doubt about this. It didn't need a thread tho. Other folk work hard too.

@Poppadumpony

Just inspired by comments on another thread.

I know I am not being unreasonable but I just want to say it!

Teachers keep 30 children with diverse needs safe, happy, occupied and learning from 9-3pm.

Teachers typically plan and prepare for 5 lessons a day. This involves finding, adapting or creating the resources for each lesson. (Average KS2 lesson might need: introductory powerpoint, items for practical demonstration, 3x sets of worksheets and a game). This prep all happens after 3pm.

Teachers need to mark and provide feedback on all the work that said 30 diverse children produce during the 6 hours they are in school (30x5= 150) every day. This also happens after 3pm.

Teachers attend staff meetings, discuss children with parents and create educational displays in the classroom. This happens after 3pm.

At any one time, a teacher is also likely to be doing one of the following: planning a class trip, preparing an assembly, preparing a school concert, running a club, writing a scheme of work. This all happens after 3pm.

Teachers work incredibly long, hard hours. Yes, they get the holidays. Yes other professions do overtime.

I am just pointing out that really only a third of a teacher’s work happens between 9-3 (high-energy work) and there is a huge amount of additional work to be done every single day, in preperation for the next. The pace is phenomenal, and there is zero flexibility in terms of hours.

Teaching is a very hard job. It’s why I left after 6 years, I just couldn’t hack it. I’ve done a PhD so I am not afraid of hard work.

Teaching is not for the faint hearted.
Those who manage to do it well and achieve a family life at the same time should be running this country, and I’m not even joking.

Yes I agree and also a teacher of a couple of years, before changing.

What's often not acknowledged is that the hourly rate though for teschers is bloody good. £24 to 36 an hour! Yes they do extra, but given even if working above their 1265 allocated hours, the perks of 13 weeks holiday is an amazing pay off!

OP says 'really only a third of a teacher’s work happens between 9-3'.

I suspect this is incorrect - assuming 5.5 hours worked in that period, extrapolated that's 3300 hours a year ie 6 x 13.75 hour days for 40 weeks a year, or 6 x 11.5 hour days for 48 weeks a year. I have seen no evidence that any teacher works those sorts of hours week in, week out.

FWIW, I did a deep dive a few years back into high school teacher hours and conditions in my region, as part of a process of deciding whether or not to become a teacher. I asked 23 teacher friends, acquaintances and family a series of questions about various things. My observations included the following:

• maximum hours per teacher were about 50 weekly in term time (40 weeks) plus about 100 total over holidays and minimum hours were about 38 weekly in term time plus about 50 total in holidays. The max hours were for a v enthusiastic junior teacher who volunteered to organise several extracurricular activities.
• usually higher hours in the first 5 years, lower thereafter
• teachers here (not UK) are very well paid on an hourly basis, even at the junior levels.
• only taking holidays in school holiday periods is expensive
• the actual standing up and teaching part is exhausting (I can well believe this - I do a bit of paid public speaking and that is so, so tiring- and the audience usually has no behavioural issues )
• you get quite a bit of disrespect from society generally
• having a breakthrough with a child is v rewarding
• children can be horrid as can parents
• some schools have been slow to move towards tech that reduces marking time eq online quizzes which is frustratingly inefficient.

(In the end I decided against being a teacher because - while the money is quite good for the hours worked and outside 8.30 to 3 you have a fair bit of daily flexibility - I am far too impatient and dictatorial and value the social status of being a lawyer too much. Also I like having the odd cheap holiday or long weekend during termtime. ).

We don’t need another thread on here about how hard teachers work

Never seen a thread like until now

Honestly these people who think teachers work harder than anyone else

No-one has said this. Can't you read?

Lots of jobs are hard without the pay or pensions that teachers receive

1. So what? 2. Get a better union..

Maybe that’s the reason some teachers claim their job harder than other

Where have teachers claimed this?

But they aren't going to get out are they? Theres a reason most put up with the things they whinge about and coast into an early retirement

And you know this how?

I'll cut to the chase: you don't

Because it's a chusty number and they know they won't get the pay and conditions elsewhere

Bloody stupid, as the only way of getting the same pay and conditions is to be a teacher. Duh.

Considering I get paid £45k for driving on the motorway and listening to the radio most of the day (truck driver) I'd say teachers work pretty hard.

Yep, teachers do work hard but there are countless jobs in which people work incredibly harder. The difference with teaching is the workload is condensed due to the long holidays. If there weren't any long holidays and teachers had the normal 4wks annual leave like everyone else the picture would be very different.

teachers here (not UK) are very well paid on an hourly basis, even at the junior levels
UK teacher pay is rubbish for the first few years.

What's often not acknowledged is that the hourly rate though for teschers is bloody good. £24 to 36 an hour!Yes they do extra, but given even if working above their 1265 allocated hours, the perks of 13 weeks holiday is an amazing pay off!

No teacher works just 1265 hours a year, workload surveys point to approx 50 hours a week which is 1800 hours. Not bad hourly rate if you're on ups. Rubbish hourly rate for an NQT, hence the reason loads of them leave.

I'm a teacher, and whilst I really appreciate the sentiment of this I think a lot of teachers are martyrs. I work hard, long hours, lots of marking, but then I reap the benefit of holidays with my children (even if I have to work, I can save it for the evening and spend the days with them). I also have a decent pension, I get paid quite well and my job is fairly secure. My DH works in an entirely different industry. He works really long hours, often has to work in the evenings due to international time differences, has a lot less holiday. He works has hard, often harder, than I do. I like being a teacher and I think they can get a bit of stick in the press, but there's really no need for this insistence that everyone knows how hard they work.

But you are performing from 9-3 every day whilst dealing with administrative and academic issues on the go. You can have 45 mi utes of intense King Lear then the next45 minutes of technical language work with a different class. You change to differentiate within a class then change class every 45 mins (sec). That is a huge number of individuals to interact with in a day let alone a week and you have to build up a sense of who they are and their learning ability in relation to all of the different topics in your subject. You have to be incredibly organised..
Imagine doing all of the whilst performing - that is the skilled and exhausting part - the always ‘on’ part. I don’t know of other jobs that require that of you whilst also expecting you to manage 30 individuals with differing needs all day.

Most roles that require performing stagger it so that you have breaks or time around it so that you can build up/come down and your day is organised so that you can do admin tasks when you are not switched on in performance mode playing a ‘role’ publicly

Why are teachings still trying to justify their working hours and job? I couldn’t care less what others think about my job. The job satisfaction and yes the holidays are all I need to keep going regardless of others opinions.