To just make a point about how hard teachers work.

[Poppadumpony]

Just inspired by comments on another thread.

I know I am not being unreasonable but I just want to say it!

Teachers keep 30 children with diverse needs safe, happy, occupied and learning from 9-3pm.

Teachers typically plan and prepare for 5 lessons a day. This involves finding, adapting or creating the resources for each lesson. (Average KS2 lesson might need: introductory powerpoint, items for practical demonstration, 3x sets of worksheets and a game). This prep all happens after 3pm.

Teachers need to mark and provide feedback on all the work that said 30 diverse children produce during the 6 hours they are in school (30x5= 150) every day. This also happens after 3pm.

Teachers attend staff meetings, discuss children with parents and create educational displays in the classroom. This happens after 3pm.

At any one time, a teacher is also likely to be doing one of the following: planning a class trip, preparing an assembly, preparing a school concert, running a club, writing a scheme of work. This all happens after 3pm.

Teachers work incredibly long, hard hours. Yes, they get the holidays. Yes other professions do overtime.

I am just pointing out that really only a third of a teacher’s work happens between 9-3 (high-energy work) and there is a huge amount of additional work to be done every single day, in preperation for the next. The pace is phenomenal, and there is zero flexibility in terms of hours.

Teaching is a very hard job. It’s why I left after 6 years, I just couldn’t hack it. I’ve done a PhD so I am not afraid of hard work.

Teaching is not for the faint hearted.
Those who manage to do it well and achieve a family life at the same time should be running this country, and I’m not even joking.

I am a single parent. I don't and didn't get paid for home schooling for the past six months.

No holidays, no time off, no job security, not paid back up team, no I.T department, no legal support, no cleaners, no admin.

I really respect the teaching profession, but don't go on about working hard, thanks.

And also no union.

TSSDNCOP
I career changed into teaching and love it.

I knew it wasn't going to be 9-3, knew there'd be challenging behaviour, knew some parents would be difficult, and I knew lots of what went on behind the scenes. What I didn't realise is how much more pointless shit goes on that I never had in my previous line of work.

For example, when running enrichment I didn't anticipate how many helicopter parents would be ready to complain to senior leadership that their darlings didn't get what they wanted, or how I'd be blamed by some colleague or parents for their child verbally abusing me, or how many people with various titles would want data at such a stupid frequency that any data given is bordering on useless. I hadn't realised how many colleagues I would see go from being good teachers to having a breakdown and leaving the profession because someone on SLT didn't like them. I know that sycophants exist in every job, but I didn't realise that in some schools you could have someone piling the work onto their colleagues so they can try and get promoted every 2 years when there's no way of proving their half-baked initiatives ever worked. I certainly hadn't realised how hard it would be to get the right support for the right children and I never expected to see children who clearly need SEN assessments and CAMHS referrals being refused because they're not deemed to be enough of a priority.
I really hadn't realised just how much some sections of the population have a massive chip on their shoulders about teachers and schools to the point where every year there's always a minority of parents who go out of their way to undermine the school at every opportunity.

I love my job, but there's a lot I didn't realise until I'd done it for a while.

@Cokeycola

The teachers I know who were in the private sector first (law / banking) appreciate the shorter hours and holidays you get with teaching and really don’t moan the way the ones who have only ever taught do.

This. They make themselves look silly.

I had lots of private sector experience. I also felt that way when I first went into teaching. What wears you down is the culture in the state system I think. You don’t deal with the same set up or needs in the private sector ( in teaching or other professions).

I have also taught in private schools and it was so different - so much more organised and functional. There is definitely a level of managerial expertise and organisation missing has in the state sector,imv.

Plmoknijb123

Except the OP isn’t a teacher.

I haven’t spotted any posts on here from actual teachers moaning about them being miracle public servants. Or saying they work harder than anyone else.

Granted I may have missed them - can you show me?

Are you an All Lives Matter type too? Because, you know, nobody has a monopoly on their life mattering.

I realise that’s hyperbolic by the way.

It's not just hyperbolic to compare people saying teachers have it easy to the systematic oppression of black people, it's really, really offensive.

@JonasKahnwald

I have a question about lesson planning. My son has already been through primary and my daughter is in year 5 now. She seems to be getting exactly the same lessons as my son. I don't mean just the same subject, I mean also the exact same lesson, homework etc. Is this just because the teachers at my children's school are lazy and just regurgitate the same lessons year after year? (Which I'm fine with, stick with what works) or is this what all teachers do and if so what do you mean by lesson planning? What's to.plan if you're using the same materials and lesson structure year after year?

This is such a good point. After say two years of lesson planning, all lessons are planned!

Nobo*dy said they did. In fact it’s been said several times they don’t.
**Are you an All Lives Matter type too? Because, you know, nobody has a monopoly on their life mattering.

*I realise that’s hyperbolic by the way.

Yeah you sound ridiculous.

Lots of us work bloody hard and have done so throughout lockdown ( with no childcare and no summer break) and lots of us are working in professions with increased risks - I will be teaching in a university from next week but every time I've pointed that out on teacher threads I'm shot down.

Teaching is a tough job ( I have a detailed knowledge of the job before you say I don't know what I'm talking about) but so is mine and so are many, many others.

What's never mentioned is once you have those lessons planned they can be worked on rotation for years!

I worked in schools for a number of years (in the offices) some teachers work incredibly hard and do eye watering number of hours, some teachers coast and do very little.
Some support staff also work incredibly hard and do lots of hours for free, they get shit pay and none of the benefits that teachers get (like good pensions) and aren’t treated as well.
Many many jobs also are hard and don’t get paid well.

Teachers might work hard, but they aren’t the only people in the whole world that do.

I have also taught in private schools and it was so different - so much more organised and functional.

I've taught in state and private schools and have found precisely the opposite to be true. Just goes to show that it's down to the individual school. The private schools I've worked in were able to get away with being less rigid and organised, because there was such a high level of goodwill from staff and pupils. Things didn't need to be so tightly controlled.

Teachers keep 30 children with diverse needs safe, happy, occupied and learning from 9-3pm.

Good for you. I work in a special school and I keep a child with diverse social, emotional and medical needs happy, safe, occupied and learning from 9-3pm and then supervise a group of children in the after school care until 6pm and keep them happy, safe and occupied. In short I work bloody hard just like the rest of the population who work until 5pm/6pm.

What was the point of this thread? You aren't doing teachers any favours.

Just seen it mentioned a few times... but it is a point worth making!

I have teacher friends and family that were pissed of when the Scottish government introduced the Curriculum for Excellence but admitted it would be tough rewriting lessons but once it was done it was done.

Rofl at the idea that someone working in a school office knows whether an individual teacher works hard or not. The teacher in the next room doesn't even know that! Working hard is not the same as the length of time your bum is on your seat.

After say two years of lesson planning, all lessons are planned!
I wish.
After 2 years you've got a good bank of resources to choose from but the students are different.
For example, I've taught one of my GCSE texts for 5 years. The text hasn't changed, but one year I might have a SEN group with a number of complex needs, another year I might have a child who is accessing home tuition through the LA for medical reasons who needs a plan, another year it could be top set with 6 students who are brilliantly above GCSE standard, another could be middle ability and motivated, another could be mixed ability with some challenging behaviour.

Some of those groups would get the same worksheet, but the lessons would be different.

@lazinguist. Yes. fair point. Certainly private schools can rely on some factors that state system can’t. Very true.

I worked for the Principal. I was privy to quite a lot that was going on strangely.

We could list every job and the hours pay etc - so what?
As others have said, I have been teaching now for several years after a career in two other professions that were much harder work. As a mature entrant I negotiated a salary commensurate with previous experience, so although is a pay cut is actually worth it for the less stressful job and better work/life balance.
The short days and holidays are a massive perk that people who have only ever been I teaching don't grasp.
All jobs have positives and negatives -people who moan about the conditions should indeed just do a different job.

This is such a good point. After say two years of lesson planning, all lessons are planned!

That would be lush!

I definitely try and “recycle” if I can, but - as an example- last year I taught A Christmas Carol to a lower previous attaining group, this year I’m teaching it to a very high previous attaining group. It’s entirely different.

I’ve got different year groups than last year at KS3, so have different texts.

Then - of course! - the GCSE specification changes completely every few years, so everything is totally different (which filters down through KS3 also). The KS2 specification also changes every few years!

The constant teacher and NHS staff worship on Mumsnet reminds me of days gone by where only those types of jobs (plus police etc) were seen as respectable.

Those people are hugely important, yes. But what I don't think people grasp is how many people there are working in the background to keep the lights on for those services.

It would be easier to write a thread about professions which don't work hard.

I don't understand the need for constant gratification. I'm self employed and when the SEISS grant was announced Mumsnet was awash with posts about how we are all lazy criminals, fiddling our books. Yet I haven't felt the need to post about how hard we work and how above board we all are these days. Just get on with it

And before anyone says, yes I know there's a lot of teacher bashing too. But from the outside it feels 50/50 and I'm honestly just sick to death of reading about it either way.

@cardibach I wasn't having a go i genuinely didn't know how lesson planning worked or if it needed to be changed every year.

The constant teacher and NHS staff worship on Mumsnet reminds me of days gone by where only those types of jobs (plus police etc) were seen as respectable.

Which Mumsnet is that then? I can't recall the last time I saw teacher worship let alone constant. I wouldn't want to either.

Everyone knows that MN hates teachers and are extremely unsympathetic towards them.

MN is a group made up of myriad people from across socio economic backgrounds, in different countries around the world. How ridiculous to say MN holds one singular view.

I don’t hate teachers. But I don’t see why they need special recognition for simply doing their job. Many people in many professions work really hard, long days, and do a difficult job. Many do it for a lot lower pay and fewer holidays. Teachers are great but they aren’t any more great than anyone else.

I don't think there's any doubt on MN that teaching is The Hardest Most Stressful Job (TM)