To just make a point about how hard teachers work.

[Poppadumpony]

Just inspired by comments on another thread.

I know I am not being unreasonable but I just want to say it!

Teachers keep 30 children with diverse needs safe, happy, occupied and learning from 9-3pm.

Teachers typically plan and prepare for 5 lessons a day. This involves finding, adapting or creating the resources for each lesson. (Average KS2 lesson might need: introductory powerpoint, items for practical demonstration, 3x sets of worksheets and a game). This prep all happens after 3pm.

Teachers need to mark and provide feedback on all the work that said 30 diverse children produce during the 6 hours they are in school (30x5= 150) every day. This also happens after 3pm.

Teachers attend staff meetings, discuss children with parents and create educational displays in the classroom. This happens after 3pm.

At any one time, a teacher is also likely to be doing one of the following: planning a class trip, preparing an assembly, preparing a school concert, running a club, writing a scheme of work. This all happens after 3pm.

Teachers work incredibly long, hard hours. Yes, they get the holidays. Yes other professions do overtime.

I am just pointing out that really only a third of a teacher’s work happens between 9-3 (high-energy work) and there is a huge amount of additional work to be done every single day, in preperation for the next. The pace is phenomenal, and there is zero flexibility in terms of hours.

Teaching is a very hard job. It’s why I left after 6 years, I just couldn’t hack it. I’ve done a PhD so I am not afraid of hard work.

Teaching is not for the faint hearted.
Those who manage to do it well and achieve a family life at the same time should be running this country, and I’m not even joking.

I'm a teacher, and whilst I really appreciate the sentiment of this I think a lot of teachers are martyrs. I work hard, long hours, lots of marking, but then I reap the benefit of holidays with my children (even if I have to work, I can save it for the evening and spend the days with them). I also have a decent pension, I get paid quite well and my job is fairly secure.

I'm a teacher too and I agree with this. I just get on with my job and I don't think it's especially harder than many other jobs. It's embarrassing how some teachers go on.

So at £24 min per hour, based on 1265 hours, a NQ gets about £30,000 min per year? Is that bad? It's within the realm of normal wages for UK NQ lawyers outside 'big law', who would work about 2400 hours per year.

NQTs start on about 24k a year

@Mincingfuckdragon2

So at £24 min per hour, based on 1265 hours, a NQ gets about £30,000 min per year? Is that bad? It's within the realm of normal wages for UK NQ lawyers outside 'big law', who would work about 2400 hours per year.

It's great when people do their own calculations and come up with a fictitious starting salary, and then judge the job based on that.

NQT salary is 24k not 30k (unless you're in London).

Yes totally agree with you OP 👍

@Hangingbasketofdoom, my apologies. I was using figures provided above by someone who said they are a UK teacher. I have now checked and I see from the govt education website that £30,000 is the minimum in inner London only, and that the minimum for a newly qualified teacher outside inner London is £24,373.

I should have checked before posting.

It's irrelevant what they earn really. It's a good salary for a 21 year old fresh out of uni, and a good pension and holidays, but then is deserved bearing in mind the workload in those early years. After they have a few years experience it gets easier.

YANBU to to point out that (some) teachers work hard OP, of course not, bit what is the overreaching point and the repetition of it on MN? There genuinely are harder jobs, and jobs with longer hours and higher stress and similar responsibility levels. Lots of people work very, very hard and do not seem to get or be after the recognition levels.

I used to teach and it was hard, but was the pay+holiday benefits+pension+teaching assistant support etc actually pretty generous realistically for a career that requires (at entry) a course of less than a year on top of virtually any degree. Yes, it was. Some teachers also were far better protected in the main during lockdown compared to other key workers and enjoyed job security. The retail workers were at work every day on site public facing with no PPE, a lot of health workers had deeply stressful jobs and risks with the same. It's hard to justify the endless complaints sometimes on this topic. My Dsis teaches and didn't worK once during lockdown and did about an hour a day at home. There would be no way on earth she would or could have claimed she was working hard or at risk or working harder generally than anyone else in the country.

We choose the careers we go into so surely as adults we understand what those jobs are and accept the workload of them when deliberately applying and working towards them. Working can be very stressful, no one industry is alone in that or in ot receiving enough pay benefits or recognition. I see no need or rationale for teachers to be made into martyrs in this respect.

DoubleDolphin
You're right.
Like any job, experience makes things easier and the pressures change as you get more experience and more workload ends up being distributed in other ways.

Having joined teaching as a career changer, I can safely say in my previous line of work I never experienced anything like the Joe Blogs self-appointed expert opinion that exists regarding teaching.

Part of me thinks that because most people went to school and many have children, they feel qualified to stick the boot in or talk rubbish about teachers. Naturally if teachers challenge any of the more ridiculous comments then that's taken as 'proof' that teachers always think they have it worse than anyone else.

There's no reasoning with that group of people though, so it's better to stick to talking to the reasonable people and ignore those who want to froth and stir in the corner.

@Mincingfuckdragon2 my goodness that was a fulsome apology! I feel embarrassed for criticising you now

@cardibach

that’s really odd. I saw it on pretty much every thread like that, with significant numbers of teachers offering to help, too. Maybe you are suffering from confirmation bias?

Indeed, but of course that works both ways and your recall of seeing it on pretty much every thread could suffer from the same.

I am actually pretty sympathetic to teachers so I don’t set out to be offended.

I work in an industry that is vilified by many and receive personal insults a lot. I work in the pharmaceutical industry. I am both covering up the cure for cancer to line my pockets whilst installing chips in people with our vaccine development. I falsify and hide data to suit what I want. A number of people believe I must be evil to my core to do my job.

My job is misunderstood by many.

If people are genuinely interested I am always happy to talk and explain the reality. If people have closed minds I shrug and can’t let it get to me.

After they have a few years experience it gets easier.

Not in my experience. Yes the planning loads can improve. But then you get asked to mentor, train, lead cpd, take on a key stage, get pastoral responsibilities and suddenly your workload is bonkers again.

OP, I am completely behind you. This thread makes me despair. I am in my second year of teaching and can confirm everything the OP says. YES, you can be marking 150 books every night. I was, last year in year 3. I taught 5 subjects every day that needed to be marked, except for PE.

I was at school from 7.30 -4.30 today. Had 2 hours break. Worked from 6.30 to 9.30. That's 12 hours. It's the same every night. I also work solidly throughout the weekend. Probably about 5-10 hours each day?

So I work 70-80 hours per week. I am knackered when I get home. Then I have to carry on working.

It's a really hard job, stressful and you don't get paid to reflect what you do.

Also, job security?! NOT a given. I have had two separate temporary one year contracts now. I worry about where I will end up next, if I can even get another job. There's a lot of competition in my area.

Yes everyone works hard, but good teachers work harder than most.

I think being h a teacher in the UK is awful. I did it for 15 years. The work load is horrendous.

I now teach in Ireland far better pay, 18 weeks holidays and am treated as a professional instead of content scrutiny that takes away from actual teaching.

Teachers in the UK are infantalised by the government, despised by the public and anyone who thinks otherwise should take a look at the grim recruitment and retention figures. Theres a reason for it.

It's such a relief to work on a country that values education and educators. I never work past 3.30 now.

My children have had amazing, inspiring teachers who go above and beyond, and they've had appalling teachers' who weren't even fit to be low level TAs. No profession is an amorphous mass.

Yes everyone works hard, but good teachers work harder than most.

How do you know that? Do you know how hard most other people work?

Teachers work hard, there is no denying that. Saying they work harder than most is silly.

@Hangingbasketofdoom it was my fault. I'm not in the UK and I think this means I should check my assumptions even more carefully than I otherwise might. Have a lovely evening.

Yes everyone works hard, but good teachers work harder than most.

What a ridiculous thing to say

@Mincingfuckdragon2

So at £24 min per hour, based on 1265 hours, a NQ gets about £30,000 min per year? Is that bad? It's within the realm of normal wages for UK NQ lawyers outside 'big law', who would work about 2400 hours per year.

That’s definitely not my salary. I don’t earn £30k as an NQT.

@year5teacher how is your first week going?

@year5teacher, agreed, my figures were wrong as they related only to inner Londin salaries. I have apologised and posted the correct figures above.

I hope your first day went well.

London

Other people work equally as hard its just that teachers seem to be put on a pedestal for it.

I taight...now ngs. Teaching way way harder. I get lawyers work hard ( and on a Sunday) but I bet you get paid more. Teachers get paid shit and would do that Sunday marking/ planning with no extra overtime.