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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

this carseat thing is d*** contradictory and confusing

49 replies

BabyLlamaZen · 06/09/2020 10:32

Baby is getting close to 12 months and outgrowing his car seat. Research recommends that they should be rear facing until aged 4 and definitely at least 15 months (which is about to be a legal requirement). I can deal with him being rear facing longer than anyone else, no matter how much fuss he pulls. I get that things change. Hey, it used to be OK to put kids in the front of the car!

What I can't work out is why so many car seats are made forward facing so young???

We have a stupidly old car which doesn't have isofix base and the top one for that (joie) is forward facing from 9 months. What? Confused despite this being illegal? I get that it works if we moved him into it aged 15 months but before 4, when it's not recommended. So what does the baby go in for those months between 12 - 15 months when it's illegal to be forward facing?

It's so annoying and a bit of a minefield! So we've now had to get a non swivel one which is rear facing. I haven't got the best back either so that's annoying!

It's really not helpful or clear what to do!

So... car seat manufacturers and laws NOT HELPFUL AND CONFUSING.

AIBU?

OP posts:
plunkplunkfizz · 06/09/2020 10:36

What is d*?

Grrretel · 06/09/2020 10:39

Which seat do you have?

Most seats are forward facing from 9kg but can rear face til 15 or 18kg - you don’t have to turn them early.

You can get cheaper seats that are forward facing only, but if your child is under 15 months just don’t do that!

bluebluezoo · 06/09/2020 10:41

I also want to know what d* is?

Can’t work out what word would go?

cardibach · 06/09/2020 10:42

@bluebluezoo

I also want to know what d* is?

Can’t work out what word would go?

I’m guessing damn. Which seems a bit mild to asterisk out.
Wheresmycider · 06/09/2020 10:44

There is a big gulf between what is reccomend and what is law.
Older cars were not made with the newer regulations in mind and so certain seat options are not possible (we had a mini cooper and i have no idea how we would have rear faced past the first stage car seat).
I have also found that car seat manufacturers and car manufacturers dont seem to talk to one another, meaning even with new cars fitting seats can be a nightmare. Car seats get wider but cars do not.

LimpidPools · 06/09/2020 10:44

Damn(ed)?

I found the OP pretty damned confusing.

Sirzy · 06/09/2020 10:45

The laws have only recently changed so there is always going to be a cross over time. But there are plenty of seats which go from birth until forward facing

My nephew is 6 now and had joie car seat from birth to 4 which rear faced easily until he was 2.

BGirlBouillabaisse · 06/09/2020 10:45

Damn isn't a swear. No need for asterisks.

Car seat advice is confusing, both of mine turned around at about 3yo.

NannyR · 06/09/2020 10:46

Most babies will still fit into the first stage baby carrier type seat at 12-15 months unless they are really top centiles of height/weight.

ClaraLane · 06/09/2020 10:47

There are two car seat laws running concurrently -you can legally forward face after 9kgs in a non iSize seat but you cannot legally forward face before 15 months if you have an iSize seat. All of the extended rear facing car seats that go up to 25kg are non isofix so this shouldn’t be an issue for you. Go on the website for the in car safety centre and they’ll sort you out.

Thesearmsofmine · 06/09/2020 10:47

Well you buy the joie seat and you put it in rear facing and then use it. Some may choose to turn their baby earlier but you don’t have to use it forward facing if the seat is also rear facing, My youngest is 4.5 and came out of his joie Ed seat a couple of weeks ago.

Sevo7 · 06/09/2020 10:48

How much does he weigh op? My DD is still in her first stage maxi Cosi at 21 months old because she’s under the weight limit of 13kg and her head is below the top of the seat. She looks to big for it as her legs are long but she actually still fits it fine and she’s not particularly small.

Thehop · 06/09/2020 10:48

There are plenty of seats that suit your needs.

Check out the in car safety centre for excellent advice on your make and model. Also rear facing groups on Facebook are brilliant.

alabama35 · 06/09/2020 10:49

Well mine were kept in their infant carrier up to 15 months (they still fit safely, as I believe most 'average' DC would). Others do not follow the law and recommendations hence you see 9 month olds forward facing.

CarrieFour · 06/09/2020 10:52

We had a Joie Stages )this is a few years ago now) belt installed and RF until DC was 4ish.

Maybe you can still get one?

dollypartonscoat · 06/09/2020 10:58

Dick?

SortByPriceLowToHigh · 06/09/2020 11:05

We have a Joie Stages! Bought earlier this year. DD is 3.5 and we flipped her to forward facing yesterday - in the last few months she’s started to HATE RF and was often refusing to sit in her seat, as well as wriggling her arms out of the straps while the car is moving, so while RF is safer we felt we had to try something to get her to sit safely. She loves sitting the same way as her older brother.

Wtfdidwedo · 06/09/2020 11:12

I don't think I understand your point? The seats can be forward facing by nature of design from 9 months but they don't have to be, so rear face them. Mine outgrew the infant seat at 7 months because she was tall. I bought a Joie Stages and kept her rear facing til 2 then turned it to the front.

BernardsarenotalwaysSaints · 06/09/2020 11:15

Why the fuck have you put an asterisk in damn(ed)?

Joie stages, large for his age 3yo dc5 is still within the rf limit & he loves it. Good price as well when you consider how long it lasts.

TheSoapyFrog · 06/09/2020 11:17

No advice I'm afraid, just here to find out what d* is.

KarlKennedysDurianFruit · 06/09/2020 11:22

DHs car is older (mine is the main family car) and didn't have isofix he bought a kit for not very much at all and retro fitted it, he's not particularly handy but it was very easy (you tube video), other than that a garage will do it for you

SospanFrangipan · 06/09/2020 11:31

@KarlKennedysDurianFruit

DHs car is older (mine is the main family car) and didn't have isofix he bought a kit for not very much at all and retro fitted it, he's not particularly handy but it was very easy (you tube video), other than that a garage will do it for you
FYI garages won't touch anything to do with car seats. They're insurance won't allow it.
BertieBotts · 06/09/2020 11:37

YANBU, it is confusing!

The reason why though is because the different info is coming from different sources.

RF to age 4 comes from safety experts / Sweden / longer term research and is based on eliminating instances of death or serious injury caused by internal decapitation/spinal cord stretching injury caused by the massive forces present on the neck in a forward facing harnessed seat. If you look at the data it is not exactly 4, it's 3-and-some-months but for clarity's sake, it's 4. But those FB groups where somebody has a child who is 3 years 11 months and they are advised that it would be horrifically unsafe to forward face them now... are taking it a bit too literally. Guidance has to be simple and 4 is simple.

RF to 15 months is slightly different, if you look at real world crash data (crashes where at least one person was injured) and look at child occupants and whether they sit RF or FF and whether they are killed or seriously injured in crashes, if you were to draw a line across where a change in legislation would save the most lives, it's 15 months. And that's why it's now the minimum for the newer regulation car seats.

Forward facing from 9 months goes way, way, way back. The slightly older car seat legislation ie regulation 44 was originally drawn up in the late 70s, early 80s. Car seats existed but weren't especially easy to understand, they wanted an easy to understand system - your child moves from type 0 (infant carrier) to type 1 (toddler seat) to type 2 (high backed booster) to type 3 (backless booster) and they wanted these to be easy to understand and it to be easy to understand which stage of seat you're looking for. So they built in each group based on average age and abilities. For group 1 toddler seats it was assumed that if the child is able to sit up and support their own head this is safe, they don't need the reclined position for sleeping as in group 0 baby seats. Originally, Group 0 seats only went up to 10kg, 9kg is about the weight most babies learn to sit so there it is. The next transition point which is 15kg is based on the average weight of a 3yo as it was generally thought 3yos are mature enough not to fiddle with a seatbelt. Obviously there is some overlap between each group to allow for differently sized children, but originally it made sense.

At some point they extended Group 0 to allow Group 0+ which is 0-13kg. But Group 1 seats are still from 9kg because it didn't make sense to change that classification, the recommendation changed though from "At least 6 months and able to sit up" to "around 9 months" and more recently to "at least 15 months" following the newer regulation, where it's actually illegal to use the seat FF before 15 months.

Car seat manufacturers - they need to survive as a business, and parents overwhelmingly want forward facing seats. Most people simply don't like the idea of rear facing. It's perceived as complicated for the parent, unpleasant for the child, annoying to use (limited space, can't see child without a mirror). Put simply, purely RF seats do not sell, unless you're selling in an environment such as Sweden where RF for group 1 and sometimes 2 is the norm. So of course they produce and market what will sell. And just like baby food, if your product is usable "from 15 months" and your competitor's product is usable "from 9 months", which seat is the parent of a 12 month baby going to buy? Especially if the packaging and/or shop assistant assures them that forward facing is safe.

Recently, ERF has become more popular and so many companies have begun producing ERF seats even when they never did before. It's now easier and more affordable to RF than ever. But parents generally still want to forward face. If you try to sell them a RF only seat you can see they don't want it. Most people want at least the option to FF later. But I do see loads more people RF for longer and I think that's great :)

BertieBotts · 06/09/2020 11:42

Be very very careful retrofitting isofix.

Some cars (Often Fords, IIRC) are able to have it retrofitted IF isofix was an option at the time of purchase but the original buyer opted not to have it. In this case it's safe.

I have seen some dodgy isofix kits for sale on places like Wish and if you're using one of these I recommend you stop immediately. Actual isofix is incredibly safe as it is a metal bar welded directly to the car body, which the car seat clips onto. Those kits are often just bolted into the car, which isn't as strong. Car seats in an accident are subject to an incredible amount of force - a bolt would likely shear out and the car seat is likely to be completely ejected.

For the same reason if your car seat has a top tether strap be sure to attach it to a top tether anchor point certified for use with car seats, and not to any random luggage tether point in the car boot. Those aren't rated for the same forces/weight.

attillathenun · 06/09/2020 11:42

I hear you OP, the whole car seat thing is a minefield and we’ve just been through two trying to find one with a decent recline so our 9 month old doesn’t flop forwards when she’s sleeping in the rear facing position!

If you are in the south east or midlands I highly recommend In Car Safety Centre. They are a specialist car seat shop and they let you try out the car seats and are so helpful.

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