Benefits and childcare

[princessfairy]

DH recently lost his job which is stressful but he hopes to find another one soon. Prior to this DD was in nursery and we were getting the tax free childcare but now, because I work, we are not entitled to this. Which is fair enough because technically we don't need childcare as DH isn't working. We can afford to keep her in childcare (just about) so for the time being she is still attending because it suits us and her but we pay the full wack.

Several friends, however, are getting 15 hours free childcare (children are over 2) due to benefits they receive.

So I looked into getting 15 hours free but because I am working we aren't entitled to benefits and therefore not entitled to 15 hours free childcare.

I don't want to get into benefit bashing because if someone's entitled to it then they should claim it, but I can't figure out the rationale that because my DH isn't working we don't get tax free childcare, but another person who isn't working gets 15 hours free purely because they receive benefits.

Someone said it's to get the children of those claiming benefits into nursery and help them mix with other children before school but what about the children of parents who don't claim benefits and one doesn't work?

As I said, it's not a benefit bashing post but I just want to try and understand the rationale behind this and feel like I am missing something.

If you are not entitled to any benefits even while he looks for work, then your wage must be quite high. Whereas someone who is receiving benefits will have a lower income.

Childcare is largely there to enable parents to work.

You don't 'need' childcare atm because your husband is home.

Op those 15 free hours at aged 2 are not free childcare for people who are not working. They are funded early years of education designed to stop children from very low income families or children with a disabled parent or sibling or at some other kind of disadvantage from slipping behind and being at a disadvantage starting school.

It will be because statistically children of those on benefits will experience more educational disadvantage than children of people who earn more money so they are offered free places earlier to address the imbalance. Obviously that might not apply to these specific friends but on average across the population.

@princessfairy

DH recently lost his job which is stressful but he hopes to find another one soon. Prior to this DD was in nursery and we were getting the tax free childcare but now, because I work, we are not entitled to this. Which is fair enough because technically we don't need childcare as DH isn't working. We can afford to keep her in childcare (just about) so for the time being she is still attending because it suits us and her but we pay the full wack.

Several friends, however, are getting 15 hours free childcare (children are over 2) due to benefits they receive.

So I looked into getting 15 hours free but because I am working we aren't entitled to benefits and therefore not entitled to 15 hours free childcare.

I don't want to get into benefit bashing because if someone's entitled to it then they should claim it, but I can't figure out the rationale that because my DH isn't working we don't get tax free childcare, but another person who isn't working gets 15 hours free purely because they receive benefits.

Someone said it's to get the children of those claiming benefits into nursery and help them mix with other children before school but what about the children of parents who don't claim benefits and one doesn't work?

As I said, it's not a benefit bashing post but I just want to try and understand the rationale behind this and feel like I am missing something.

If you want your child to mix with others before school then I'm sure there are various toddler groups etc that your dh could take your child to. The term after her third birthday she would be entitled to 15 hours free early years education as all children are. This is the same scheme as some children get at aged 2 because of their circumstances.

My wage is average for where I live. Not much above the national average tbh.

The only reason we can afford childcare is we thought he might lose his job and wanted to keep DD in childcare as long as possible as she thrives there so started saving a bit when we thought his job might be at risk. We have about 2-4 months before it's completely unaffordable.

But after say 4 months she will not be able to attend childcare so will be at a disadvantage when it comes to interacting with her peers when she starts school compared to someone who's parents received benefits and therefore utilised the 15 hours free childcare.

If your husband isn't working in four months and you're concerned about her socialization maybe he can take her to play groups, schedule playdates with her classmates, etc..

@Lazypuppy for example one person I know doesn't work therefore they don't "need" childcare either

@Babyroobs one reason (I think) we don't qualify for benefits is because we own our own home. I know we are lucky but we don't get help with the mortgage payments so actually our spare money is £0 but we aren't considered a low income family. You mentioned if we want DD to mix then we can go to groups but surely those on benefits can do that too.

I think @TW2013 has explained it's all down to statistics but our own personal circumstances falls outside the statistics.

@steff13

If your husband isn't working in four months and you're concerned about her socialization maybe he can take her to play groups, schedule playdates with her classmates, etc..

Absolutely. For now she is at nursery but when the funds run dry for that we can look. Unfortunately due to the current pandemic there's a lot around us which is still shut.

My little boy didn't go to nursery until the free hours at 3 and he certainly wasn't disadvantaged starting school. Your dd will not be disadvantaged.

[quote princessfairy]@Lazypuppy for example one person I know doesn't work therefore they don't "need" childcare either

@Babyroobs one reason (I think) we don't qualify for benefits is because we own our own home. I know we are lucky but we don't get help with the mortgage payments so actually our spare money is £0 but we aren't considered a low income family. You mentioned if we want DD to mix then we can go to groups but surely those on benefits can do that too.

I think @TW2013 has explained it's all down to statistics but our own personal circumstances falls outside the statistics. [/quote]
You wont be denied benefits because you have a mortgage. Benefits like Universal credit are based on income, your age etc, although those who rent rather than owning their own home will get a rent element.
You are missing the point about why some children get the pre-school care at aged 2, they are usually from very low income households, or considered to be at some disadvantage educationally. They may have a parent with mental health problems or a sibling with a disability meaning the parent has less time to focus on the child. There is no harm contacting your local authority to see if your income is low enough to qualify. It can seem unfair that they get some funded hours at aged 2 but the criteria are quite strict to focus that help on the most disadvantaged children. Research shows that early intervention can prevent kids falling behind.

How old is your dd? She will get funded hours in the term after her third birthday.

The 15 hours for 2 year olds is because evidence suggests children eligible for this are likely to be disadvantaged and behind their peers when they start school. It's an early intervention scheme. Be glad your child isn't deemed to need it.

@queenmother that's good to hear. She's very sociable and I've struggled to find mum friends nearby so I would hate to have to pull her out completely.

@Babyroobs I probably have missed the point because what I consider low income (as in £0
once all bills and food are paid for) is probably not what is really considered low income and that's purely my own naivety. She has just turned 2 but has been in childcare since 7 months. I know she will get 30 hours from next September (or probably 15 if DH hasn't found a job by then?).

Like a pp said, it’s there for children from disadvantaged family’s in one way or another and although you have said your annual salary isn’t much above the national average that’s a lot more than what some of these family’s bring in. Also, nursery could be an escape for some of these kids whereas your lo is safe and sound at home. I know it mite feel frustrating op but there are reasons behind it.

[quote princessfairy]@queenmother that's good to hear. She's very sociable and I've struggled to find mum friends nearby so I would hate to have to pull her out completely.

@Babyroobs I probably have missed the point because what I consider low income (as in £0
once all bills and food are paid for) is probably not what is really considered low income and that's purely my own naivety. She has just turned 2 but has been in childcare since 7 months. I know she will get 30 hours from next September (or probably 15 if DH hasn't found a job by then?). [/quote]
I think the cut off for being eligible for 2 year funding is around 16k if that's any help.

@queenmother

My little boy didn't go to nursery until the free hours at 3 and he certainly wasn't disadvantaged starting school. Your dd will not be disadvantaged.

I think I'm a bit worried/overthinking about this as she is a late August baby so I'm thinking about her starting school just after her 4th birthday when there will be some kids who are turning 5.

Sorry here's the link.
www.gov.uk/help-with-childcare-costs/free-childcare-2-year-olds

Is that 16k in earnings or savings?@Babyroobs

In low income areas of Wales, everyone gets 15 hours free at two, regardless of whether you're working or not.

If someone is on benefits when you are not it is because they earn less money than you. I know it probably doesn't work out that you have more income at the end of day. But that is how it is worked out.

I'd recommend you start looking into the criteria for funded hours from 3 where you live. Because where I live, both parents have to be working to receive the full 30 hours entitlement.

@princessfairy

Is that 16k in earnings or savings?**@Babyroobs**

You need to be on Universal credit with an income of less than £15,400 it says on the link. If your income is this low you would likely be entitled to Uc unless you have savings over 16k.

@princessfairy they all even out in the end. Childcare as young as two is rarely giving them skills like reading and writing it's just playing with other kids. As she'll get the 15 hours when she's three anyway she'll be back in childcare before you know it. Surely childcare is a relatively new concept when you think about it. Kids always used to be with their mums or dads before they went to school. I didn't go to childcare and I'm a well adjusted intelligent adult.

@NoPointInWednesdays that makes sense because DH are good parents (although we have our doubts) but we could be awful and just because I work DD is stuck at home with us. Although I get what you are saying about statistics.

I guess when they government has looked at the benefits and childcare help there has to be a cut off but because we are in the middle there's no help.

The other thing that frustrates me is the tax free element. I still pay tax so technically my wages are paying for childcare so get no tax breaks as I would as if I was single.

The mistake is people thinking that it's childcare. It isn't, it's because research has found that children of unemployed parents are at a disadvantage. It's for the benefit of the child and not the parent.
I do think that working parents should have childcare earlier than they do now because it is so expensive.

@queenmother ha true! My mum always said childcare was never an issue as the done thing was that she will quit work once she had kids (probably showing my age now). Although back then houses were cheaper and could be run on a single income. This is the same mother who asked when we would have another baby a day after DH was made redundant 🤦🏻‍♀️