Benefits and childcare

[princessfairy]

DH recently lost his job which is stressful but he hopes to find another one soon. Prior to this DD was in nursery and we were getting the tax free childcare but now, because I work, we are not entitled to this. Which is fair enough because technically we don't need childcare as DH isn't working. We can afford to keep her in childcare (just about) so for the time being she is still attending because it suits us and her but we pay the full wack.

Several friends, however, are getting 15 hours free childcare (children are over 2) due to benefits they receive.

So I looked into getting 15 hours free but because I am working we aren't entitled to benefits and therefore not entitled to 15 hours free childcare.

I don't want to get into benefit bashing because if someone's entitled to it then they should claim it, but I can't figure out the rationale that because my DH isn't working we don't get tax free childcare, but another person who isn't working gets 15 hours free purely because they receive benefits.

Someone said it's to get the children of those claiming benefits into nursery and help them mix with other children before school but what about the children of parents who don't claim benefits and one doesn't work?

As I said, it's not a benefit bashing post but I just want to try and understand the rationale behind this and feel like I am missing something.

But after say 4 months she will not be able to attend childcare so will be at a disadvantage when it comes to interacting with her peers when she starts school compared to someone who's parents received benefits and therefore utilised the 15 hours free childcare.

No she won't be disadvantaged at all because kids don't need formal childcare to socialise and meet other children.

For centuries parents have seen to this, long before actual childcare and nurseries were even a thing.

If your DH isn't working and you both think your child needs to interact with other children, there are so many ways he can make that happen - from baby groups to local meet ups in the park etc and most of them are absolutely free.

@princessfairy I know, elements of the benefit system is frustrating and especially when you feel like your own are missing out it’s really unfair at times but try not to be too concerned about your lo going to school just turned 4 my niece is a January birthday so she was the same everyone else was or had turned 5 apart from her and another girl in her class and it’s not effected her 1 bit ( still a cheeky sassy wee sod at 9 lol )

Like you say there has to be a cut off somewhere but it still doesn’t mean it’s not crap

@TheSoapyFrog

The mistake is people thinking that it's childcare. It isn't, it's because research has found that children of unemployed parents are at a disadvantage. It's for the benefit of the child and not the parent. I do think that working parents should have childcare earlier than they do now because it is so expensive.

Yes. And now that you and others have said this I can see why. I suppose with myself and DH we can send DD to childcare and are lucky to be able to save to send her for a few months while DH looks for another job. Thinking about the friends we have on benefits they wouldn't even consider childcare unless they got the 15 hours free. My DD has really thrived at childcare and we can see the difference

Several friends, however, are getting 15 hours free childcare (children are over 2) due to benefits they receive.

The 15hrs you're talking about are not childcare, they're early education. It can only be claimed if the parent(s) are in receipt of specific benefits/have a low income or the child is a looked after child, has SEN, or receives Disability Living Allowance. This is because, demographically speaking, children from these households or in these circumstances start school at a lower ability level than their peers and they struggle to catch up. The scheme is intended to lessen the disadvantages caused by this gap.

The fifteen hours is term time only, the same as school, and a lot of settings impose set days/times - typically three hours a day Monday to Friday.

@WorraLiberty

But after say 4 months she will not be able to attend childcare so will be at a disadvantage when it comes to interacting with her peers when she starts school compared to someone who's parents received benefits and therefore utilised the 15 hours free childcare.

No she won't be disadvantaged at all because kids don't need formal childcare to socialise and meet other children.

For centuries parents have seen to this, long before actual childcare and nurseries were even a thing.

If your DH isn't working and you both think your child needs to interact with other children, there are so many ways he can make that happen - from baby groups to local meet ups in the park etc and most of them are absolutely free.

Say she started school, her peers will have mixed with other children because their parents got TFC or 15 hours free then she will be disadvantaged.

It's all well and good saying for centuries parents saw to this but I'm thinking about what happens in today's society.

DH and I will make sure she socialises but my point is that we are in the middle. There are some toddler groups around but they are either soft play (I'm not even sure are currently open) where there's different kids each week or groups which are £9 an hour (which is more than childcare).

@Gancanny what's the difference between childcare and early education for 2 year olds. The childcare DD is at will be the same regardless of if it was the 15 hours free or we are paying 100%

what's the difference between childcare and early education for 2 year olds

Childcare - year round, you can pick and choose your hours, you have a wider choice of settings.

Early years education - limited to term time only and to 15hrs per week, the setting usually choose your session times and for many this will be three hours per day Monday to Friday, you're limited to using settings that offer the 15hrs as not all do.

The setting has to follow the EYFS curriculum regardless but there are difference between the two.

@princessfairy I understand your frustration and I was in a similar situation not too long ago.
I can't help but feel like the government introduced this scheme in order to keep an eye on children who would otherwise not be on the radar.

Put yourself in the shoes of a family with no income outside of tax credits or universal credit.
Many of those families will find it hard to cope with finances, finding the time to look for work etc.

Say one of those parents find work, they will be in a better position financially and the other parent will be responsible for childcare until they find work themselves. Just like you.

Like I said, I've been in your position. After much moans and groans and further research I realised that (in my opinion only) this scheme not only helped some children to socialise but it also helped keep more children on the radar.

When I say radar, I mean keeping an eye on children who would otherwise go unnoticed.

If this scheme could save one life then in my opinion it's 100% worth not complaining about it.

That said, your DH is at home right now. He has plenty of time to interact with your DC.

Don't forget that as parents, you need to provide your child with play time and education too. It's a lesson I myself learnt not too long ago and it was a big wake up call.

2 year funding wasn't a thing when my dc were small so neither of them had any form of childcare/early years education until they started nursery at 3, possibly even 3.5 I can't actually remember.
When they went to reception there was a mixture of children who had been in nursery since baby age, just nursery/preschool/ childminders/had nannies. You honestly couldn't tell the difference. And DS1 was a late August baby.

The 2 year funding isn’t childcare, it’s education.

Lots of people who moan about this really show themselves up about how narrow minded and thick they are.

People need to stop focusing on the adults who are claiming benefits and focus on the child. The child who is statistically going to fall behind before they’ve even started school. Why shouldn’t they have that leg up so that they reach their full potential? People need to stop flick that big ugly chip off their shoulder about benefit claimants and realise that this particular help isn’t for the adult - it’s for the CHILD.

*People need to flick that big ugly chip off their shoulder

__ You mentioned if we want DD to mix then we can go to groups but surely those on benefits can do that too.

You lost me at this point OP.
Some people are single parents. You have a partner to look after your DD is needs be whilst he is out of work. What others are doing is not really your worry and if you envy their life so much give your job up. If you don’t get help you must be on a decent wage!

@funinthesun19

The 2 year funding isn’t childcare, it’s education.

Lots of people who moan about this really show themselves up about how narrow minded and thick they are.

People need to stop focusing on the adults who are claiming benefits and focus on the child. The child who is statistically going to fall behind before they’ve even started school. Why shouldn’t they have that leg up so that they reach their full potential? People need to stop flick that big ugly chip off their shoulder about benefit claimants and realise that this particular help isn’t for the adult - it’s for the CHILD.

THIS times eleventy billion!

Trying to argue that your child will be disadvantaged if they have to leave childcare is disingenuous at the least!

Unless you earn less than £16k count yourself lucky that she doesn’t fall into the very statistic the 2yr FEEE was intended to benefit!

OP! Your daughter won't be adisadvantaged not attending. She has enormous advantages over many children. You clearly read and write to a high standard and probably read to your child in the home. You both clearly care very much about her future and supporting her day to day and actually have to means to do so (I.e, you know how to negotiate the world and institutions to sort out what you need for her). Some parents just don't have the education or literacy or experience to do this. They might never have been parented properly themselves, maybe dropped out of school very young, they lack the skills and confidence. By getting their children into early years education their children can be exposed to the experiences other kids get without even thinking.

It's not a matter of not having all the socialisation with other little kids, it's things like being exposed to early literacy (having an adult read picture books with them) that they'd otherwise miss out on. A child from nice functional family who stayed home doing activities with her dad for a year will be fine when she starts reception. A child who has never seen a book much less had one read to her, has never experienced the sort of educational chattery language we use with kids "ooh, look at the bus! What colour is the bus? That's right, it's blue!' Or singing number songs have much lower literacy and numeracy skills when they start formal school. And there's research showing that they generally never catch up. Early childhood education policies want to bridge that gap.

It's not about benefits because there are plenty of very low income families who still provide these opportunities with their kids. But not all families are capable of doing so and it's those kids that need the extra help.

Your daughter has lovely, caring parents who are highly literate. She will be fine 😊

Meant to add, benefits are a way of identifying these families because it's unlikely someone who needs this support is holding down a regular well paid job. There are plenty of others on benefits due to life circumstances or because wages are so shit. But they aren't necessarily trapped in the cycle of poverty and low educational attainment that others can be in.

If you've no one to model achievement in education and employment it can be overwhelmingly difficult get there yourself. A broke middle-class family will still have those role models and expectations and so their kids aren't so disadvantaged.

You keep saying you didn't want this to turn into a benefit bashing thread and yet you keep doing it.

Working families can get the childcare for 2 year olds but then their income must be below the 15-16,000 limit. If your family doesn’t qualify it is not because you work but because you earn too much. But it is only for 2 year olds, from age 3 she will get it regardless of your income or benefit status.

@funinthesun19

The 2 year funding isn’t childcare, it’s education.

Lots of people who moan about this really show themselves up about how narrow minded and thick they are.

People need to stop focusing on the adults who are claiming benefits and focus on the child. The child who is statistically going to fall behind before they’ve even started school. Why shouldn’t they have that leg up so that they reach their full potential? People need to stop flick that big ugly chip off their shoulder about benefit claimants and realise that this particular help isn’t for the adult - it’s for the CHILD.

Exactly this. I don't understand why people find this so hard to understand. Two year funding is for children deemed to be at a disadvantage, for whatever reason.

Exactly this. I don't understand why people find this so hard to understand. Two year funding is for children deemed to be at a disadvantage, for whatever reason.

Exactly, but yet people are so blinded by their hatred towards people on benefits that they don’t bother to find out the real reason why this 2 year education exists. It’s much easier for them to start going on about what an injustice it all is And “Why do people sit on their arses all day need help with childcare?” YAWN.

OP, you have a point. I can also see the merit in the thinking behind this to benefit kids from disadvantaged backgrounds. But the whole situation becomes counter productive when working people don’t get this facility when they need it and they see m no on working people dropping kids off to free childcare in the morning to then not work.

Aside from the rational merits of the original argument, this kind of thing makes the general people take stance on welfare that we have seen in the last 10 years. We can’t ignore the perception and the emotion that this situation generates.

Isn't your husband claiming new style jsa?
As others have said 2 year old funding is for disadvantaged children that are deemed to be at risk by being in their feckless parents care as of course anyone on benefits is feckless.
There are plenty of groups at churches and community centres across the land that cost very little that your husband could take your daughter to if you are that concerned.
Your DD will be fine.

The two year old funding isn't just for families on benefits or who have a low income. It is also for children with identified SEN, children who are in care or looked after, and children who have a disability and are in receipt of Disability Living Allowance.

It is to help children from groups who are more likely to need support to help them keep pace with their peers. Why would anyone begrudge a disadvantaged child needing help?

OP, you have a point. I can also see the merit in the thinking behind this to benefit kids from disadvantaged backgrounds. But the whole situation becomes counter productive when working people don’t get this facility when they need it

It’s not counter productive at all, because it helps the children it is aimed at. That’s the whole point.

It’s not aimed at children who have parents working full time on a decent amount of money, because those children are very likely not disadvantaged and therefore don’t need that help before they start school. Why are people begrudging this support just because others don’t get it?

I still pay tax so technically my wages are paying for childcare so get no tax breaks as I would as if I was single.

So leave your DH, become a single parent and claim all the benefits. Am sure you're dd will then no longer be disadvantaged

Sadly, there are always a few cases that don’t fit neatly in the holes and it looks like you are one of them.

Have you checked you’re not entitled to even a few pence of universal credits? This would make you eligible for all sorts of help.

Ask nursery if they have any ideas. They may move you to the less popular days for a short term discount for example. We’ve done it when families have a temporary blip.