Was I unreasonable to rig the school council election?

[Coffeeandteach]

I can tell you who will win when I look at the list of candidates. Every year it annoys me that some lovely, often overlooked, somewhere in the middle child will put themselves forward and read a thoughtful speech (written all on their own, at school) but never wins. They lose out to either the most popular or the most able child.

The child who got the most votes today had a speech that consisted of only, "I should win because I am the most popular."

I broke. I rigged it. The lovely, overlooked, somewhere in the middle child was announced the winner and she was delighted (and will do a great job).

YABU- You are the Putin of teachers. Shame on you!

YANBU- Sometimes you have to help the little guy

I think it would have been better to remove "I'm the most popular" from the election before the vote took place. Or at least to explain after the fact that there was some censorship. Trouble is now there's a risk kids will ask each other who they voted for and figure out you cheated, and you'll lose their trust.

@Kreacheriscleaning

Because it’s a while school thing so I don’t have that option. As a parent, would you really want me to allow the child that disrupted learning all week to win a prize just because their name came out of a box or would you prefer me to reward someone who had genuinely worked hard and behaved well?

I would prefer it if you didn't do the draw at all, if you are going to lie about the result.

As I said. I don’t have that option.

I used to have to organise my form voting for their school council rep. Nobody told me what the voting system should be, so I would look at the candidates, and then decide. One year, there was someone who would be everyone's second choice but nobody's first (because they would all vote for the leading light of their friendship group). I gave everyone two votes.

@Kreacheriscleaning

As I said. I don’t have that option.

Well then, yes I'd rather you were honest and rewarded the disruptive kid, if you have no other option.

Take it up with your head or whoever makes the decisions if it isn't working. Point out that little Oliver has been disruptive all term, yet he keeps getting rewarded. Maybe this isn't the right way to reward children.

The whole "I'm not letting that kid be rewarded with an assembly when he's annoyed me all week" thing is misdirected frustration at your lack of control over a system you (rightly) disagree with. You can't control the system, as that is out of your hands, but you can punish a little kid who is in your care, for your frustration at the system, because he has annoyed you that week. Would I prefer that to the 'wrong' kid getting a reward, but fairly, and in line with the rules of the game? No, I would not.

And no wonder so many kids lack resilience, when there are teachers sneaking around behind the scenes so that, even when it has been made clear that the odds are stacked against them, (because Oliver has more tickets in the pot), they still manage to get a reward, because the teacher took a shine to them that week. If you were honest and said you just rewarded kids as your whim chose, that would be different, but you haven't said that. You are making out that there is a fair and representative system in place, when there is not. That's shit.

Amazing. I'm so pleased you did this. My kind, caring, mature, lovely daughter got overlooked last year on school council by a child who offered free sweets to anyone that voted. An absolute disgrace.

OP did exactly the right thing.

It's the "popular" kids that get everything, yet they're the ones most likely to be the bullies.

It's time that the middling/shy pupils are given a chance to shine.

OP did exactly the right thing.

No, she didn't. You saying it, doesn't make it so.

It's the "popular" kids that get everything, yet they're the ones most likely to be the bullies.

Then the system needs to change. And bullying should be tackled with decent systems and procedures, not with some teacher slyly sticking votes in the bin.

It's time that the middling/shy pupils are given a chance to shine.

Totally agree. Why then, is it, that so many teacher on her 'bravely' take on their class of young children by pretending they get a fair vote and then rigging the election, but at the same time, teachers appoint the same kids to the same roles year in, year out? A pp (teacher) said "but those roles should be filled because of talent". No hint of "letting other children shine". Is it only when it can be done on the sly, or when they personally dislike a child they barely even know, that the 'brave heroes' actually do something about unfairness and letting all children have their moment? Makes me question how brave and heroic they are tbh....

Or is it only when the children make the decision that the teachers think it's fair game to intervene? Despite making out to the children that this is their time to vote and make a difference. So, so brave of them, awesome and heroic. To take on young kids behind their backs. I mean...yeah, moving stuff .

The kids primary school have a various positions each year - school council, eco council, sports reps, and several others. You can’t run for the same one again if you get voted in. It means most children who put themselves forward have some chance at getting a position at least once

Although I do have to admit one year after DS1 who has ASD traits and not sociable at all had not been voted all the years he put himself forward o let him take in chocolate coins. I thought he’d give them out when he asked people to vote but no he announced to the class if he got voted in then they could have the chocolate 😂

I think you did the wrong thing.

Systems such as two votes or you can only be chosen once are known in advance before voting. And are genuine and fair.

I am also the mother of a child with a physical disability.
She unexpectedly found herself largely wheelchair bound for the first two years of senior school. Nobody wanted to be with the kid who when she could walk, 'walked funny'.
She couldn't do class trips, PE, go into town and struggled terribly making friends. Obviously didn't get voted for anything and spent most of her time in the library.
When she put herself forward for library monitor we thought it was a sure thing but that didn't happen either.
Therefore I'm surprised at the number of teachers who say they would influence things.
My dd predicted in year 7 who would be in the head girl team etc in year 13. Our experience is that teachers only facilitated popularity contests.
That being said I'm still a bit undecided about this particular scenario tbh.

Reece Witherspoon was so good in that movie.

@ancientgran

I wonder if this is how my DD got on the school council? She wasn't one of the popular kids, in fact she got bullied to the point of saying she wanted to be dead when she was 10. She wrote a really good speech and my heart bled for her as I knew she didn't have a chance. The joy when she was not only elected but became chair of the council. I feel a bit sad if she didn't really win it although I'd have been even sadder if she lost.

Thinking about it her class teacher was one of the bullies so probably not unless the Head did the count.

If there was a teacher who unreasonably had it in for a kid (and believe me, we know when that's going on - had it myself in the first year of Juniors and I started being rescued asked to come and help with every little task or activity that would get me out and away from her by the other teachers), I'd accidentally drop their vote into the shredder without a moment's guilt.

I think we've all suffered at the hands of bullying teachers who should never work with dc.
We had a male teacher when I was 9 who was the nastiest human I ever met.
I hope he had a horrible old age being cared for by psychopaths.
Too much?

Not all popular kids are up their own arses. My daughter is popular and one of the nicest people you'll meet.
She ran for class representative in year 7 and won.
She had prepared what she was going to say when she was in year 8. Her form teacher stopped us one day in town and asked us if she was going to run again. She said "you should. You'll win the most votes as you're so popular in the class".
My daughter decided at that point that she wouldn't. She didnt want to be chosen for something for any reason other than the work she put in. Shes refused to run again since then. She thinks it's unfair on her and the others.
Don't assume all kids are the same.

I think you were wrong, much as I like the outcome.
You were wrong, because what you should have done is campaign to your head long before, to change the system.
Children vote for shortlist not final decision, or the speech must be 200 words... whatever.
It isn’t right to rig an election.

At my kids primary school the ones who won always promised they'll get macdonalds / kfc / pizza hut for lunches instead of school dinners and get shorter school days longer breaks etc of course these things never happened but the genuine children who wanted to try get more litter bins and arrange fundraisers for equipment to use at playtime were always laughed at and its so sad. Seems its in some peoples blood from early on to vote for clowns who promise things that in reality can't be achieved

YABU. If you don’t like the system change it.

Otherwise never complain about people not following the rules. Hope you like Trump as he would be proud of you.

👏 Well done Op,
from an insignificant who's one and only part in any of the many school plays was to hold the curtain open when the rope broke.

Not sure why you responded as you did in the first part of your post. I outlined exactly what I meant by popular. Perhaps you didn't read it properly. It matched almost exactly your first category. The rest are irrelevant as a response to what I wrote.
Because several posters seem to be arguing that teachers are jealous of popular children and popular children are popular because they're all lovely and kind.

My point is that not all popular children fall into that category.

There's a lot of people focusing on the idea that in the OP's situation this wonderful talented popular child lost an opportunity because they are popular. In reality they didn't bother to give a speech about what they would do as class rep and instead told the kids to vote for them because they are popular.

As I said earlier, had the student done a good speech outlining their ideas and the OP removed them for being popular then I'd had said they were out of order.

Personally this is why I like the several stage approach that secondary schools I've worked in have, where for certain opportunities students have to apply for roles and then the good candidates can go for a vote, or manifestos are submitted and then students vote for manifestos. It goes some way to reducing school opportunities being decided by popularity contests.

A pp (teacher) said "but those roles should be filled because of talent". No hint of "letting other children shine".
That was me and maybe my school is unique because we have lots of talented students and offer a range of opportunities.

We have a great drama department who run a range of shows with a range of parts. They're not going to give the lead to a shy year 8 who mumbles, nor are they going to cave to pushy parents demanding their darling gets the lead because they always had the lead in primary. Strong actors get the bigger parts and different plays suit different students. This is reflected in the casting.

We don't give solos in national music competitions or places on the A team for country sport based on giving everyone a time to shine, but we do have music and sporting opportunities at a range of levels.

Funnily enough, the biggest issue we have at our school are a minority of pushy parents who think their child is some sort of natural star because they always got everything at primary. It doesn't seem to cross their mind that maybe in a year group of 200-250 children that there might be lots of other children with lots of talent so their child isn't a shoe in for everything.

I think you were wrong for a number of reasons, but primarily because you made a selection based on what you value, and not what the children being represented value.

YABU because instead of recognising a potentially flawed system and changing the way it's done for the benefit of a wider section of students you've lied to all of them in order to get your own way in one single instance.

It's dishonest, self-important and doesn't serve anyone in the longer term.

If your students suspect or find out that you both overruled them and lied about it, you run a real risk of losing their respect and any right to expect them to behave with honesty and integrity towards you and each other in future.

Sorry, I don't think you've done a very grown-up thing, or delivered a good lesson for life, here.