NHS consultant flies to Greek island despite quarantine

[kumquat365]

Name change for this. DH and I have a friend who is an NHS consultant at the top of the pay scale whose service is short-staffed and has spoken to us about the unnecessary deaths caused by lack of cover in his speciality.

He's a keen swimmer and cyclist and booked to go on an activity-style holiday with a friend. He's not married and has no family: this wasn't a family holiday. They were booked to go to an upmarket activity holiday centre on a Greek island that in the last few days has been put on the quarantine list by both Scotland and Wales. The flight was due to depart late yesterday afternoon. Our friend's mate, who is a medic based in England, decided not to risk it and dropped out. Our friend, who works in one of the countries that had declared a 14-day quarantine on return, went in the knowledge he'd have to quarantine on return.

AIBU to feel shocked and disappointed? He's complained so much about shortages of staff in his specialism and he's just taken a decision that will mean it's even worse.

You're going to expose yourself to a lot of avoidable stress if you feel shocked and disappointed at what other people do with their leave. MYOB, and while you're at it, stop holding one individual doctor responsible for a situation that has been caused by significant structural problems in the NHS. YABVU.

Except for all the patients who'll need their clinic appointments cancelled during his unplanned absence due to 2 weeks quarantine and all the support staff (also overworked) who will have to re-book and send new appointment letters out for all those patients.

Maybe even the patients who will have their operations cancelled (if he does ops).

It's not just a holiday - it's 2 weeks on unplanned absence that has knock on effects on other people. If he'd booked 4 weeks off, that's fine, it will have been planned for. This is different.

No, it isn't. We have no idea what speciality he's in, either, he may be able to do his job via Zoom appointments. He may not even need to quarantine at all. And the absence is obviously not unplanned because it wouldn't have been approved for him to go.

At any rate, it's his job, not his life. He's not beholden to give up his life for it.

It's no one's fucking business where he goes on holiday.

It's not just a holiday - it's 2 weeks on unplanned absence

NHS staff don't have to quarantine and if he has, he may have factored it in? How do you know this will be an unplanned absence?

@ashmts

I actually think YANBU to be disappointed in his priorities. My partner and I work in the NHS and cancelled all holidays abroad as it seems irresponsible to go knowing that we may need to quaratine on return. Depending on when you booked, the NHS will pay you to sit at home. I couldn't do that in good conscience. We changed to 5 nights somewhere in Scotland and guess what? It was lovely.

YABU however to bring up the fact he's unmarried, child-free etc. Irrelevant.

nhs staff were actually encouraged to use annual leave to stop any burn out

If he's that short-staffed at work, a job which is already immensely stressful even without staff shortages, he's more in need of a holiday than most. Particularly as you say his area of work involves the trauma of regularly seeing patients die.

With no children or partner he won't have the support or comfort that you get from going home to your family at the end of a stressful working day. He's probably in desperate need of some fun time, time away from home to take a break and indulge in a pleasurable activity. We all need something in life to enjoy and look forward to. Without a family at home, he has to look for alternatives. A foreign holiday in his case. It sounds very well deserved.

As for our so called quarantine. It's a load of nonsense. Countries doing proper quarantine transport passengers by coach or minibus to selected quarantine hotels. It's pointless if people are wandering off from the airport onto public transport. In any event we have higher R rates in many parts of the UK than they do in Greece. He's more likely to catch coronavirus here.

@Tenner

It's not just a holiday - it's 2 weeks on unplanned absence

NHS staff don't have to quarantine and if he has, he may have factored it in? How do you know this will be an unplanned absence?

No exemptions for NHS Scotland staff and it doesn't sound like he works in England so very likely he does have to quarantine

Nhs staff can get tested and not quarantine

@Tomatoesneedtoripen Yes thanks, I know that, what with being NHS staff. It's possible to take annual leave for a break without going abroad though.

YAB massively unreasonable, however I work in the NHS and have been told not to go to any countries that require quarantine on return, unless we take the time out of our annual leave. Could he be doing that?

Just because it's not a decision you would make, does not make it wrong. I hope he has a great time (although a lodge on a loch in Scotland also sounds quite good to me, if someone's handing them out for free? I can make myself available)

Ahuh, so he works doing a job that you know is a really important one doing a lot of good for society but that’s not enough to make him a good person. This actually, in your head, makes him a worse person than people who contribute less to society but also go on holiday. . .

[quote ashmts]@Tomatoesneedtoripen Yes thanks, I know that, what with being NHS staff. It's possible to take annual leave for a break without going abroad though.[/quote]
Yes, I'm sure he, like anyone else, knows that.

He complains each time we see him of how patchy his service is, of having clinics cancelled because of lack of support staff and so on. His speciality is one where the likelihood of people dying and he recently told of us of three deaths which ought to have been preventable. But he's made a choice that will put him out of action for another fortnight

Imagine how stressful that must be.

Our service is very understaffed but we still get to use our A/L. It is stressful, we can’t do our jobs properly because of staffing but we won’t be able to do them at all if we don’t get a break.

What do you do op?

As long as he is using his annual leave and not going off on the sick in order to quarantine then YABU. A "patchy, understaffed NHS" is not in any way his problem to solve, nor would him cancelling the holiday help this, he still has to use his AL whether it is in Greece or a Scottish loch.

He is entitled to a holiday. The risks are virtually non-existent anyway.

He is actually more at risk if he is overworked and tired.

I'm with you op. For anyone, regardless of their job or marital status, to go abroad knowing fine well they will leave an understaffed department struggling and therefore cause more stress for colleagues by having to quarantine seems a bit shit to me.

Our school has kids who returned form Greece the day before term started. No quarantine in place sadly, seems the teachers and rest of the kids just have to be exposed to the risk. I'm sure those families deserved their holiday too, even so you'd think of others surely and maybe arrange to return a week earlier.

MaskingForIt

He could have had a cycling/swimming holiday here. In fact the pair of them had been offered someone's nice holiday home on a Scottish loch as an alternative last week.

How on earth is Scotland a suitable alternative to Greece? Do you know how much leave consultants with years and years of service have? Absolutely loads. Do you know that rotas are arranged months in advance so it will be factored in? Did you know that many consultants have non clinical time too for research and writing papers too and that he may well be working on that when he gets back? Did you know he’s entitled to holiday as much as anyone else? Mind your own business.

YABU - the Greece quarantine is ott anyway, cases are under 20 per 100,000- as a medical professional he will know how to keep himself safe. Just generally speaking the whole judging others for behaviour related to covid is OTT. Individuals need to be able to make their own risk assessment and as long as they follow the rules/guidance others should not judge.

@Marpan

Nhs staff can get tested and not quarantine

is this so?

@kumquat365

He's a human who has actually worked less over recent months because a lot of his work has been cancelled/ put on hold.

He is not burnt out, though he's frustrated. He would tell you himself that he's had a very nice summer here in the UK. He doesn't have a wife, he doesn't have children to look after and take into account, he doesn't even have elderly parents depending on him. He's one of the least stressed people I know.

So only people encumbered with spouse, kids and/or dependent elders have stress that merits a holiday?

I thought that NHS exemption had been cancelled now. I also thought most exemptions applied if you were travelling for work not holiday.

• Except for all the patients who'll need their clinic appointments cancelled during his unplanned absence due to 2 weeks quarantine and all the support staff (also overworked) who will have to re-book and send new appointment letters out for all those patients.

Maybe even the patients who will have their operations cancelled (if he does ops).*

Yes, because he's the only consultant in his field in the country and his employers won't have thought about arranging locum placement cover at all.

DH and I have a friend who is an NHS consultant at the top of the pay scale whose service is short-staffed and has spoken to us about the unnecessary deaths caused by lack of cover in his speciality.

Under staffing is not his responsibility to solve. One reason the NS continues to just about creak on is that so many staff bend over backwards, denying themselves the leave and quality of life they deserve, to keep it running in the face of years of inadequate resourcing. They do it because they care. But they shouldn't have to even consider it.

'He is entitled to a holiday. The risks are virtually non-existent anyway'

Of course he is. If he'd have had the quarantine rule imposed while there then fair enough. He knew before he went though.

All the doctor cheerleaders on here Don't his patients count? Don't his colleagues who will have to pick up his slack?!