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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

AIBU - to be thinking about not paying?

107 replies

HumptyDumpty1947 · 02/09/2020 15:07

My father died at the end of July. I told his landlord and cleared his flat immediately.

Today I received a bill for nearly two thousand pounds from the landlord - for six weeks notice (when the flat was empty - except for their contractors getting it ready for the next tenant). They. have also said that I am responsible for paying the council tax for six weeks after he died.

I am feeling very fed up and minded not to pay - but I have never even considered doing anything like this before and know I am very emotional at the moment and may not be being reasonable. I would be grateful for your advice on what you would do.

My fathers estate won't cover the funeral costs so it would be for me to pay.

I don't mind paying any of his bills but feel annoyed towards the landlord. They are an almshouse - a very rich charity (part of which includes two of the most expensive independent schools in the country so money for them really isn't an issue). Unfortunately they weren't especially kind to my father whilst he lived with them and many of the services that we were told would be provided weren't - so, unfortunately, I dont really feel under any moral obligation /or debt of gratitude towards them. .

I also dont really see why I should have to pay for services (such as as are paid for through council tax) when we didn't receive them. My father was dead and I pay council tax where I live. We didn't and couldn't access the flat during the six week period so had no benefit from it.

If they had been kind towards my father I might feel differently but I dont. I would resent making this payment but I do realise that perhaps I have to. I'm not sure what the legal obligations are once someone has died and what the relatives are responsible for. If they had been good with my father I wouldn't think twice about it but given some of the problems he experienced I would really resent making the payment. What would you do?

OP posts:
ChikiTIKI · 02/09/2020 15:45

Sorry for your loss.

Council tax bills are addressed to a person. If someone dies the bill is not payable.

Out of the estate only council tax up until date of death would be owed.

Thelittleweasel · 02/09/2020 15:46

@HumptyDumpty1947

I am sorry to hear of this.

As everyone says the contract was with your father and the debt would fall to his estate. Assuming that he died intestate and you will be dealing as administrator I would write back [by letter headed re Estate of Mr X] and let him know that you will deal with the estate as the law requires and will make any payments which are due in the fullness of time. Then Draw in all fund and after checking that the estate is indeed inadequate write again. Simply state that you have dealt with everything and that there are no funds and the matter is closed. You will need to produce a brief statement of the funds and their use [death certificates and funeral for example] which will show a deficit. You have no obligation to do so but it might be worthwhile to send him a copy of the finances.

It should be made clear that you have no liability to make good any shortfall. Although family usually does so there is no obligation to pay for a funeral and that could fall to the local council. Do please investigate {Citizens Advice perhaps] if there are any grants to help out

Fundays12 · 02/09/2020 15:47

The estate can be billed for the rent not you. If there is no money in the estate too pay the rent then they have to write the debt off. You are NOT financially liable for this debt regardless of what they say unless the tenancy was in your name. As for the council tax it should have been frozen when he died. I dealt with some of my fathers estate and debts so please do not let them try force you too pay anything. Tell them too speak too the council about the council tax and take you too court if they want over the rent because a judge will throw it out and hit them with legal costs. The only exception too this if you are on the tenancy then you see liable.

unmarkedbythat · 02/09/2020 15:47

Oh, op, I am so sorry Flowers

As many pp have said, the debt is not yours. I'm extra sorry you are having to deal with this rubbish whilst grieving.

Cindie943811A · 02/09/2020 15:48

Op did you act as a guarantor when you DF entered into the contract? If not then you are not liable for any debts . His estate is solely liable and if there is no money after funeral expenses are paid it is just tough luck.

Hercwasonaroll · 02/09/2020 15:48

Don't pay a penny. The estate is liable and if there is no estate there is no one to pay.

Pipandmum · 02/09/2020 15:49

Are you the executor? Whomever is should be dealing with this, but it is the estate that owes, not you - you do not inherit debt.
If you had informed the council they would have stopped charging council tax - they may still so get in contact with them. This is nothing to do with the landlord.
Technically the landlord can ask for rent from the estate until the end of the terms of the lease. But one would hope they will be reasonable.
There are a priority list of creditors that should be paid from the estate, with income and council tax at the top, then secured loans (like a mortgage) then unsecured (like utility bills). If there is no money in the estate the debt dies with them. Not sure where funeral expenses come in to this.

PickAPick · 02/09/2020 15:49

Absolutely not. You don't inherit debt from a deceased parent. Tell them to swivel.

Herja · 02/09/2020 15:50

@Moondust001

I suggest you tell them to take it up with your dad.
I'd go with this.
RhymesWithOrange · 02/09/2020 15:50

@contrmary

If the contract was with your father and not with you, they have no legal right to make you pay. You cannot inherit debt, it can only be taken out of the estate (which it sounds like won't cover it).

This. Inform the LL and then ignore.

Minimumstandard · 02/09/2020 15:51

You personally have no legal obligation to pay. Let them know there are insufficient funds in your father's estate and that should be the end of it.

FizzyGreenWater · 02/09/2020 15:53

Nope - not a chance.

Not your debt.

Nothing in the estate? Tough luck.

ivfbeenbusy · 02/09/2020 15:55

It's not up to you pay as other have said

I'd ask for proof it stood empty for 6 weeks and wasn't let out again as soon as it was empty

Does your father not have any pensions etc that will cover his debts?

I'm sure the council tax will be credited if you show a death certificate

MannymanMunroe · 02/09/2020 15:57
  1. Any debts are owed by your father's estate, not you personally.
  2. You say that the LL failed to provide certain services. Were these services part of the rental agreement and included in the rent? Is the cost of them quantifiable? If they pursue this debt against your father's estate, your solicitor may raise the issue of set off - which is a common law right allowing people to off set money owed against money payable. This could be used to counterclaim against any claim by the LL against the estate.
  3. Name and shame the buggers if they have been bad landlords. I used to work for people like this. They get away with it because people suffer in silence. They use wealth and class and knowing the system as a weapon against the poor people they are meant to be serving. They have charitable status - and all the tax etc status that brings - to help the poor, but many of them have nothing but contempt for them.
CoronaBollox · 02/09/2020 15:57

My fathers estate won't cover the funeral costs so it would be for me to pay.

Then that's that, you pay nothing out of your money.

I said similar to what a PP suggested when my DM passed and I had a company chasing me. "Take it up with my DM and if you get hold of her tell her I said hello" they stuttered, accepted the death certificate of proof and that was that.

CleverCatty · 02/09/2020 16:00

nope - AFAIK you're under obligation to pay as it's your father's debts. tell them politely to do one.

sorry for your loss too Flowers

MrsSlipSlop · 02/09/2020 16:00

I would enquire with the council directly re council tax.

His landlord is trying it on frankly and if there is no money in estate after funeral costs then that’s it.

LEELULUMPKIN · 02/09/2020 16:02

Don't pay a single penny OP. WE had a similar situation when my DM passed away. A CC company tried to come after me for about £100 that was on her account.

Like a PP suggested, I told them to take it up with my DM as there was no money in her estate.

Never heard off them again.

Sorry you have lost your Dad, it's a horrible time I know x

DopamineHits · 02/09/2020 16:02

Did you sign anything with the almshouse, or was it all your father?

If you have no contract with them, you owe them nothing. The only thing they can do is sue your father's estate.

orangenasturtium · 02/09/2020 16:02

Flowers Sorry for your loss.

You personally don't have to pay anything but, if the estate has any money left after the funeral costs, the estate would have to pay. The charity are just following procedure.

A tenancy doesn't end with the death of a tenant. The estate is liable for rent until the contract ends ie at the end of the notice period or the end of the term for a fixed tenancy.

Council tax is slightly different. You need to check with the local council but normally council tax is no longer charged after a death. Most councils waive council tax for the first six months. However, the estate is still "liable" for the council tax until the end of the tenancy, even though the council tax rate is zero. You need to notify the council and deal with the paperwork, not the landlord. Again, even if the local council doesn't waive council tax, you aren't responsible for paying it, the estate is. If there is no money, there is no money. The debt ends with you DF's death.

VeryQuaintIrene · 02/09/2020 16:04

You definitely shouldn't be paying council tax. My mum died this year and not only did they refund the money that she shouldn't have been paying while in a nursing home, but right now I am paying no council tax even though her flat will after probate belong to me.

RonaTheMoaner · 02/09/2020 16:05

So they want you to pay for space you had no access to and had their contractors in?

You aren’t liable for the debt as others have said, your dads estate is and if there isn’t anything then you don’t have to pay.
Also, council tax would be stopped immediately upon your fathers death so definitely don’t pay that either

Atalune · 02/09/2020 16:07

You’re not liable.

Legally and morally they have not one wobbly leg to stand on.

Horrible bastards. Ignore them, and send their letters back unopened and return to sender.

Buttercupsandroses · 02/09/2020 16:07

Op if his estate won't cover it you are not responsible for the debt