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The Disunited States of Trump (Trump Thread #104)

988 replies

TheNorthWestPawsage · 02/09/2020 14:25

Trump used manipulation and race-baiting four years ago. He’s at it again. We are weary and worried but we shall persist.

Cartoon by Chris Riddell.

Previous thread:
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/3983600-Less-than-100-days-and-counting-Trump-thread-103?msgid=99566209#99566209

The Disunited States of Trump (Trump Thread #104)
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26
Lweji · 22/09/2020 10:58

I was under the impression that Trump wasn't so happy with Fox these days, or is it that Fox isn't so happy with Trump?

Even Laura Ingraham seems to be quizzing him a little too much.

TheSparklyPussycat · 22/09/2020 11:08

It often takes me half an hour to read posts and follow links each morning. As to the full thread, I think it would be hard to skim. And being able to read all the OPs posts is no good for this particular thread.
Also I don't know the ins and outs of US politics so mention of eg Maine with details is helpful, especially if it is then addressed by other posters.

AskingQuestionsAllTheTime · 22/09/2020 12:20

I think the question we need to ask is, "Are Democrats going to be so disheartened by bad news that they don't bother to vote?"

This goes along with "Are Republics going to be so worried by the polls that they turn out in huge numbers?" and "Can independent voters be influenced into not bothering or voting one way or the other?"

If we think these things might be the case, we might all just as well slit our wrists now (I include those not in the USA and powerless to effect the result, whose world will be polluted beyond recovery if Trump gets his way) or else more practically all work as hard as we can to influence anyone we know who might possibly vote Democrat to do so and help save the planet.

Yes, I really do think this may be the most important election the USA has ever held. Even if it is something Trump said, a stopped clock is right once a day....

AcrossthePond55 · 22/09/2020 14:09

"Are Democrats going to be so disheartened by bad news that they don't bother to vote?" No. If there is low turn out it will be apathy or (as with Hillary) overconfidence, not because we've 'lost heart'. All I can do is hope we remember the lesson of 2016.

"Are Republics going to be so worried by the polls that they turn out in huge numbers?" Yes. I believe this wholeheartedly. My caveat is pro-Scrotus Repugs will turn out. Those who don't wholeheartedly support him....I just don't know if they'll 'abstain' or will 'hold their noses' and vote for Biden to, as PP mentioned, give us a 're-set'.

"Can independent voters be influenced into not bothering or voting one way or the other?" Absolutely, and that is a large part of why Hillary lost the election, too. Bernie didn't throw his support behind her 100% as soon as she got the nod. He did this time for Biden, but I still don't think he's been as vocal (stridently vocal) as he could be.

But my fear isn't really voter turn out, it's fraud, foreign tampering, and voter suppression. I believe that if we have a 100% fair and above the board count of the votes, Biden will win.

lionheart · 22/09/2020 14:37

It would be interesting to see what Republicans (rather than total Trumpers) share Wishing.

BruceAndNosh · 22/09/2020 16:35

Romney will support Trump's nomination for SCOTUS
The twat.

edition.cnn.com/2020/09/22/politics/scotus-nomination-congress-latest-mitt-romney/index.html

OVienna · 22/09/2020 16:39

His head should have been shoved down the toilet a long time ago, @BruceAndNosh.

OVienna · 22/09/2020 16:40

Sorry to be so crass. Well, not sorry, actually.

AskingQuestionsAllTheTime · 22/09/2020 16:54

AcrossthePond55
But my fear isn't really voter turn out, it's fraud, foreign tampering, and voter suppression. I believe that if we have a 100% fair and above the board count of the votes, Biden will win.

Well, that isn't going to happen with Trump's lads and lasses having anything to do with the voting machines or the ballots, is it. Every nasty trick in the book will be pulled out to try to skew things his way.

I was wondering what effect telling a (mostly) anti-Trump board that he was likely to win might be, and why people might bother to do so. To make people who will be voting Democrat despair and not bother? I wouldn't have thought it very likely to have that result.

Roussette · 22/09/2020 16:57

Romney caved then.

www.forbes.com/sites/andrewsolender/2020/09/21/trump-predicts-biden-will-win-debates-in-last-minute-effort-to-lower-expectations/#3f9de9bcce8f

Something tells me Trumpy is having a little panic about the first live debate against Biden next Tuesday... the first moderator is Fox's Chris Wallace, the only remotely sane voice on that news channel.

"However, possibly heeding advice from advisers that presidential campaigns historically raise debate expectations for their opponents, Trump switched his tune on Biden’s debating abilities on Monday, noting at a rally in Dayton, Ohio that he's “been doing it for 47 years, I've been doing it for 3 and a half.”

“Who knows,” Trump said, predicting “he should be able to beat me,” because “he’s much more experienced” and “he’s great.”

Trump reportedly hasn’t done much preparation for the debates, with his campaign not holding a single mock session and making no plans to do so, according to NBC News. Instead, NBC and Politico reported, Trump’s strategy is to prod Biden to knock him off balance.

So Trumpy is going to freewheel it... should be interesting to watch Shock
First debate Tues 29th Sept.(Fox's Chris Wallace)
Second Thurs 15th Oct (Steve Scully, C-Span)
Third Thurs 22nd Oct (Kristen Welker, WH correspondent)

Mike Pence and Kamala Harris
Wed. 7th October (USA Today Washington Bureau Chief Susan Page)

PerkingFaintly · 22/09/2020 17:55

Well, manipulating expectations is a very successful technique, and a good, cheap way to improve the emotional response towards your own candidate without having to change anything they're doing or offering.

You just create unrealistically high expectations of the other candidate and then surf on the emotional fallout when the other candidate can't fulfil these.

It's widely used in UK politics in too.

You can spot it being seeded by the messaging. Instead of "Y is the party for blah!", it's all, "Wasn't X supposed to be the party for blah?"

And then you see lots responses of: "I can't vote for X, they've not met my expectations on blah. OK, Y will perform even worse on blah, but X let me down and I'll never forgive them."

It's basically negging. The words look like they're about something positive, but they're designed to induce negative feelings.

Done right, party Y never, ever has to discuss its position on blah. Which works nicely for it.

AskingQuestionsAllTheTime · 22/09/2020 17:57

Got it. Thanks, Perking.

I did notice the quick mention of things trans, upthread, which looked like something not quite what I would expect on this thread.

Heffalooomia · 22/09/2020 18:04

Trump reportedly hasn’t done much preparation for the debates
he wont have done any..surely?
His boundless hubris tells him that he will ace it if he wings it b/c of his fine brain, not to mention the performance enhancing drugs etc.
Sooo looking forward to him slurring and leaning and gripping his way through:)

PerkingFaintly · 22/09/2020 18:12

Indeed. But you can do it with any "blah".

In fact the blah is... well, essentially a MacGuffin. With the difference that a MacGuffin can be unimportant in itself, whereas a blah will be more effective if it's something inherently important to some people.

Eg Q-Anon's current MacGuffin is child sex trafficking. Obviously that's an issue that's important in itself. But for Q-Anon, it's a MacGuffin.

lionheart · 22/09/2020 18:12

Roe V. Wade of course.

www.huffpost.com/entry/amy-coney-barrett-supreme-court-catholic_n_5f68dc2cc5b63b8afd80a3c3

'Front Runner For Trump’s Supreme Court Pick Is A Catholic Who Opposes Abortion.'

Wishingstarr · 22/09/2020 18:24

lionheart unfortunately self identifying Republicans are massively pro Trump according to polls. As I mentioned, they seem to have made peace with his horrendous personality because his Presidency is getting them what they want. Of course McConnell has been pushing through the legislation and I really don't think Trump has a clue what's going on in Congress the majority of the time. He is busy enjoying "Executive Time" watching FOX and OANN (One America News Network) all day. He doesn't read and has no interest in policy. He just a distracter and disruptor whose complete lack of boundaries and empathy means he doesn't operate like most people.

He's not preparing for the debate because he can't concentrate, has the attention span of a flea, and he won't be debating, just attacking and trying to take advantage of any perceived weakness in Biden. He loves TV, attention and cameras and understands sound bites and how powerful images are, so most likely he will try and provide the audience with images which appear to humiliate or confuse Biden. He's willing to do anything and play as dirty as he can.

He is just not operating in any kind of normal way. He has survived endless scandal that would've killed any other President's political career years ago.

So what Dems find horrifying Republicans love because while the circus is going on they are moving on policies. He was also able to take full credit for the economy doing well, even though it was a continuation of Obama's policies.

I am not defending Trump, I am trying to describe what I see and why there continues to be a hard core of supporters. They definitely seem to love that he's uncouth, crass, rude and offensive. They like that he's brought troops home and he talks about the USA and not about globalism.

I think they feel the narrative from the Left elites for years has been that Americans should be ashamed and that white Americans are the descendants of slave holders and colonizers. Now with BLM there has been a double downing on the Left with the razing of statues etc.

Shame is not necessarily a winning formula for working class whites in rural communities and small towns that have been dealing with decline, opiate addiction and a fall out of the middle class.

Trump instead offers a hearty F*k Yu to this narrative and stands for what Americans in the heartland believe is the soul of America, pride in the nation, Christianity and traditional family.

Transgenderism and identity politics is not playing well in these communities.

BruceAndNosh · 22/09/2020 18:27

Thank you to whoever used the term Gish Gallop up thread, I was trying to recall the name.
I assume that will be Trump's debate strategy, he's hoping to deluge Biden with inaccuracies

AcrossthePond55 · 22/09/2020 18:46

Saw this and had to share.

The Disunited States of Trump (Trump Thread #104)
AskingQuestionsAllTheTime · 22/09/2020 19:20

Wishingstarr, please could you tell me how you define "identity politics"? And to whom it applies?

OVienna · 22/09/2020 19:37

@Wishingstarr

lionheart unfortunately self identifying Republicans are massively pro Trump according to polls. As I mentioned, they seem to have made peace with his horrendous personality because his Presidency is getting them what they want. Of course McConnell has been pushing through the legislation and I really don't think Trump has a clue what's going on in Congress the majority of the time. He is busy enjoying "Executive Time" watching FOX and OANN (One America News Network) all day. He doesn't read and has no interest in policy. He just a distracter and disruptor whose complete lack of boundaries and empathy means he doesn't operate like most people.

He's not preparing for the debate because he can't concentrate, has the attention span of a flea, and he won't be debating, just attacking and trying to take advantage of any perceived weakness in Biden. He loves TV, attention and cameras and understands sound bites and how powerful images are, so most likely he will try and provide the audience with images which appear to humiliate or confuse Biden. He's willing to do anything and play as dirty as he can.

He is just not operating in any kind of normal way. He has survived endless scandal that would've killed any other President's political career years ago.

So what Dems find horrifying Republicans love because while the circus is going on they are moving on policies. He was also able to take full credit for the economy doing well, even though it was a continuation of Obama's policies.

I am not defending Trump, I am trying to describe what I see and why there continues to be a hard core of supporters. They definitely seem to love that he's uncouth, crass, rude and offensive. They like that he's brought troops home and he talks about the USA and not about globalism.

I think they feel the narrative from the Left elites for years has been that Americans should be ashamed and that white Americans are the descendants of slave holders and colonizers. Now with BLM there has been a double downing on the Left with the razing of statues etc.

Shame is not necessarily a winning formula for working class whites in rural communities and small towns that have been dealing with decline, opiate addiction and a fall out of the middle class.

Trump instead offers a hearty F*k Yu to this narrative and stands for what Americans in the heartland believe is the soul of America, pride in the nation, Christianity and traditional family.

Transgenderism and identity politics is not playing well in these communities.

All of this is spot on.
OVienna · 22/09/2020 19:42

I'd also add the following: There is a very mistaken idea that Evangelicals think the only person that can represent them is someone with perfect Christian credentials. It's desirable, of course, and embodied in Trump's preferred SCOTUS pick. However, they also firmly believe that God can work through a candidate with flaws, even significant ones, like Trump. God choosing flawed soul to do His Work possibly even feels biblical to some of these people.

This is why the whole 'pussygrabbing' nonsense didn't spark the outrage it might have.

I really see evidence of this in my parents' friends' posts on FB.

AskingQuestionsAllTheTime · 22/09/2020 20:00

I continue to have faith that the United States is not completely lost to idiocy and superstition, because although as many as one-third of its voters may be, the other two thirds are not.

lionheart · 22/09/2020 20:01

Ah, yes, I know about the polls but was thinking specifically about what actually gets circulated on social media amongst Republicans.

Lweji · 22/09/2020 20:18

Meanwhile...
And again...

The CIA has concluded that Putin is 'probably' personally behind efforts to hurt Biden's election campaign, per Washington Post report

trib.al/uYRVpk4

TheNorthWestPawsage · 22/09/2020 20:40

Led By Donkeys have joined the party.

twitter.com/ByDonkeys/status/1308355009164304384?s=20

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