To think if you rely on a food bank you may need to compromise your vegan principles?

[LondonUnited]

I’m a supporter of our local food bank and am on their mailing list. I received an email earlier to say that they were supporting a vegan family and were therefore asking for specific food donations, including Oatly oat milk, various nuts and seeds, specific types of beans, etc etc.

I may get flamed for this but I couldn’t help thinking that - allergies aside (and I have a milk allergic child so I do get it) - if you need a food bank to feed your family, you might need to compromise on diet slightly? For a start, Oatly Barista is lovely and all that, but Aldi or Asda oat milk is also ok and half the price. And that the odd bit of tinned fish may be easier to access from a food bank than Brazil nuts and chia seeds...

YABVU and offensive. I'm surprised you didn't write beggars can't be choosers

so I do my best to be aware of the welfare of the the animals, and their products, that I eat

An absolute crock of shit.

Basically what it boils down to is that there are some people on this thread who believe that veganism is an expensive, elite choice and should therefore only be available for people who can afford it, an attitude based equally on ignorance of vegan diets and a massive chip on the shoulder.

@mathanxiety

The horror expressed on this thread that food bank clients should get 'luxury brands' is a very depressing eye-opener.

But isn't it an entirely reasonable expectation that anyone on a budget should compromise and buy cheaper products?

If someone asked what to do to reduce their own grocery bill, an obvious suggestion that would be made by many would be to buy own brand or go to a cheaper supermarket, so why is it not reasonable to make the same choice when sourcing products for a food bank?

Many of the people who donate to food banks are on a budget themselves and can't afford the more expensive brands so choose cheaper alternatives, which in most cases are just as good or certainly perfectly satisfactory. If the food bank asked for only premium products due to some misguided notion of 'we must give people the most expensive option in case anyone feels upset or worthless' then there is the risk of there being insufficient supplies to go round.

If you have 10 hungry families it makes no sense to ask for 6 families worth of premium products when you could feed them all for the same amount of money with own brands.

But isn't it an entirely reasonable expectation that anyone on a budget should compromise and buy cheaper products?

Yes if you are buying for yourself then you need to live within your means, and if you are buying for a food bank obviously only give what you can afford to give.

No it's not a reasonable justification for a food bank to present a family with products that are not useful or sufficient for their dietary needs because as pointed out, there are nutritional differences between supermarket brands of oat milk and certain name brands. Ditto, Brazil nuts provide an essential nutrient.

Nobody here knows what this family is facing in terms of allergies or nutritional needs. Just because they are vegans doesn't mean they are arrogant, entitled CFs looking for special expensive foods because they are unable to face a less posh lifestyle.

You don't know what the family who requested Oatly are doing to provide the rest of their meals, or what they sacrifice in order to sustain the vegan way of life. Maybe they have a productive garden. Maybe they skimp on new clothing or footwear, or never drink alcohol or smoke or buy makeup or do Christmas or have a foreign holiday in order to afford the rest of their diet. Maybe they don't run a car.

Many of the people who donate to food banks are on a budget themselves and can't afford the more expensive brands so choose cheaper alternatives, which in most cases are just as good or certainly perfectly satisfactory. If the food bank asked for only premium products due to some misguided notion of 'we must give people the most expensive option in case anyone feels upset or worthless' then there is the risk of there being insufficient supplies to go round.

Nobody, absolutely nobody, is asking food banks to do that.
The food bank is aware that some clients have specific dietary needs, and has put certain items on their wish list.

You don't have to donate those items if you can't afford them.

Nobody is looking down their nose at your tins of baked beans.

Nobody is being personally asked to give more than they can afford. Step back from this emotionally, buy and donate what you can afford to give, and trust that someone who can afford to give more, or more expensive items, will do so. It's not your personal responsibility to feed all the hungry and the hungry don't expect you to do more than you feel able to do.

If you have 10 hungry families it makes no sense to ask for 6 families worth of premium products when you could feed them all for the same amount of money with own brands.
What food banks are trying to do is provide a little of what people fancy - because it really does do them good. They also want to provide food that is actually nutritious, not just a basket of token foods.
They don't expect donors to go out and buy every branded item on a shopping list.

What makes no sense at all, financially, is providing lower nutritional-value foods to families that have specific dietary needs for whatever reason. That is the real waste of money. (And veganism is a valid reason to need a specific diet, btw).

@SimonJT, @TheHappyHerbivore, @BarbaraofSeville, @Soontobe60, @SharonasCorona, apologies if I have missed anyone.
To start, I feel extremely blessed to have my children and grandchildren, and I am not quite sure why it is bad for me to appreciate how lucky I am.
I am also confused by why I should be soothed by any decent person (and in my mind most people are decent, whatever their colour, religious beliefs, personal beliefs, or country they were born in), not being able to buy food which will then leave them feeling hunger, or having dissatisfaction in the food they eat. However, I cannot want animals to suffer because of their (and my) desires/needs.
Barbara, sorry I meant halal meat, not food.
I do not draw any distinction between myself and those who want to eat halal meat, whether they are Jewish (and therefore it would have to be Kosher as well), or Muslims, or people who like to eat halal meat for other reasons. I do not claim any moral highground, and yes I do hate that I am one of the cruel people who still eats meat that I do not need for survival, and that if there were no shops, I would not be willing to kill the animal for myself, or let my loved ones do so in my name. So you are right, I am totally being a hypocrit, and I wish that when I gave up eating meat for 6 months that I could have stuck with it. There are certain animals that I will not eat, and yes they do happen to be very cute; ducks, deer, rabbits, veal calfs, but then sadly, I will eat lamb and calfs, which are just as cute. I won't eat the others not just because they are Bambi and Thumper, but because I do personally draw a distinction between animals in the UK that can live wild, and those that I believe would not live wild in the UK, but are only farmed animals. However, I am not deceiving myself that my personal choices are any less cruel, than others who will eat any animal for enjoyment. I like to think that in another life I would have different priorities (not selfishly having children for my own reward), but instead dedicating myself to massively improving the living conditions of all animals living under the captivity of humans, whether they be farmed animals, in a zoo, or pets, other than dogs and cats, who I believe we have a sort of symbiotic relationship with - particularly dogs. For the animals we, as humans, want to eat, I hope that I would campaign for much better conditions attatched to their deaths; one being that they had to be killed within 5 miles of where they live, the second being that they should be killed individually, and not within earshot, sight, or smelling distance of any other animals, and lastly only the most humane of method of killing be employed - I would have to do lots of research to discover what that should be. Because I am too disabled and depressed, and exhausted, to do any of this now that my children have grown up, and yet on paper I should have the time. I really hope that after I die I can influence to some extent what lessons I need to learn in my next life (I believe in my own version of the Tree of Life, and I know that after my death this time I will not progress up the Tree, as I still have hatred in my heart for paedophiles, any people who are purposely and maliciously cruel to orhers, particularly children, and those that are knowingly cruel to animals, and yes I include myself as one of the people I hate).
Soontobe60, please do be bothered to point out all my blatant rascism, as I truly believe that I am not racist, but if I am, it is something else that I need to remedy, selfishly for the sake of my soul, but more importantly so that others do not suffer from my racism. I know there is no reason you should care for my soul, but if there is a chance it could help others, would you please give it a go?

What I said - more than twice now - is that in the case of OAT MILK, Oatly and Provitamil are similarly good in terms of nutrition for young children, whereas in the case of Sainsbury's own brand oat milk, the clear statement is included on their website that it is not suitable as a main milk drink for young children

We are also talking about the larger context of store brands, and how some posters seem to feel they are inferior or feel bad to give them to food banks when in most cases, they are comparable. In most cases, you are just paying for branding and marketing.

And if this family has done so much ‘research’ they may discover better, cheaper ways to provide calcium to their children rather than fucking fortified oat milk, which is in no way a staple in households at this point in time. It was a very fringe product until maybe last year.

I understand that dairy is almost sacred in Western cultures, but ffs it’s more than possible to get all the nutrients you need without it (or plant-based milks for that matter).

The parents the OP believes are cheeky fuckers have clearly checked the labels, and they obviously know a heck of a lot more about nutrition than many on this board do

She doesn’t know the context, but neither do you. It’s just one of many possibilities. They could well be cheeky fuckers. You are acting as if vegan families were never able to provide their children with proper nutrition before the advent of oat milk. This is silly.

At this point I am banging my head on my desk

Happy to help

But yes, nuts are indeed very nutritious and therefore should be made available to anyone using a food bank who can eat them, and not just those who specify them as a dietary preference.

I’m sure this is exactly what happens if there are enough nuts to go around (though that seems an unlikely scenario, given how many posters have expressed horror at the idea of donating anything that might be considered a ‘luxury’ product to a food bank) but surely you can see the sense in things being distributed according to actual need?

Say you have four families - three omnivorous and one vegan. And you have a few tins of tuna and one bag of cashew nuts. Surely you agree that it makes sense to give the nuts to the vegan family rather than the omnivorous families, since the latter can eat tuna and get a decent serving of protein that way, but the vegans can’t?

And if you had plenty of tinned meat and tuna in stock but not nuts, and were supporting a vegan family, it would make sense to put out a call for donations of nuts to enable you to better provide for the nutritional needs of that family?

I honestly can’t imagine this is an issue that regularly crops up in food banks (others on this thread are much more informed about it than me) but I think it would be a weird definition of ‘fairness’ that saw vegans go without vital nutrients for the sake of sharing nuts equally with families who already get those nutrients from other, non-vegan sources.

@mathanxiety do you are being a bit ridiculous now to make your point. Obviously I’m not advocating giving buts Tom people who can’t tolerate them.
Being a vegan doesn’t mean you get preferential treatment over anyone else.

Sorry many typos
*giving nuts to people

The fact that I would be judged for donating cheaper brand products makes me think it’s for the best I don’t donate at all. We certainly don’t eat luxury brands at home.

I really can’t debate about nuts anymore 🤣 but if there are 2 families 1vegan, 1 who can’t afford nuts. I think nice to split them.

I hope other posters are not deterred from donating.

I volunteer at our local food bank and we are very grateful for any brand of foods. We usually just ask people to check the website of what we are short off. We have limited storage so an excess of pasta is less useful at the moment when we’re short of chocolate and toiletries. Thank you to anyone who donates. It could be any of us needing it in the future. With Covid and Brexit more and more people who never thought they would need help will be turning up to collect a foodbank parcel.

The fact that I would be judged for donating cheaper brand products makes me think it’s for the best I don’t donate at all. We certainly don’t eat luxury brands at home.

Why don’t you go back, read the thread, realise that this is not what anyone has been saying, slide off your martyred high horse and chuck a packet of pasta in to the donation box on your next shop?

In that case, the vegan family should be given some of the nuts in lieu of other protein sources that they won't have received - eg tinned meat is a common request for food bank donations.

Of course if there is an abundance of nuts then everyone should have some unless they have specified no nuts due to allergies.

However, it will be extremely rare that anyone can only eat certain brands, we all have our preferences but in times of 'needs must' we have to make the best of what is available, accounting for religious/dietary choices such as veganism and allergies of course.

The average food bank offering would also be an awful shock to the type of Mumsnetter who only eats a fresh organic low carb diet as the practicalities of storing and preparing donations mean that the food provided is the very opposite of this, being entirely canned or dried, often processed and/or cheap filling carbs.

if people are thinking of things to donate to food banks then dried beans and pulses are fantastic. Everyone can eat them, they're packed full of nutrients, they're dirt cheap and they're very filling

Whilst this is true, they often need a long time to cook. Many food bank users can't afford the fuel to cook them (I promise you I am not making this up), and many - particularly this who live in bedsits don't have any "cooking" facilities other than a kettle. Donations of those pot noodle things and dried soups are always welcome for this reason.
I know that our local food bank they are often given those Fray Bentos "rise-pies" (as they are called in this house). They have to pass them on (usually to the salvation army) because the oven is suppose to be heated up to a very hight temperature (which can take 20-30 minutes on an old cooker) before you even put the pie in. People just can't afford the gas or electric.

I was absolutely shocked when I learned this myself - I hadn't realised how very fortunate I am to have those things we almost all take for granted - a cooker a toaster - and the money to run them. Some people really live hand to mouth and every penny counts.

Please everyone check what your foodbank needs. They know what is needed to make up the parcels. It’s worked out to ensure that people are getting the type of protein, carbs etc.
Many users of foodbank are people working but for one reason or another need help.

[quote Potterpotterpotter]@TheHappyHerbivore I’m not on min wage, I don’t use food banks and I don’t need benefits. I haven’t looked into the problems with UC because they don’t concern me. I left school and got myself a decent job so I can afford whatever brand of food I want but like Iv said if I did have to use a food bank then I’d be happy for anything edible, not top brands.

If you can’t afford your own food then be happy someone is willing to feed you.[/quote]

I'm with the poster upthread who said that it is shameful that it is happening at all - this is the fifth richest country in the world but almost all the wealth is concentrated if a few greedy hands which accumulate more by employing people on zero hours contracts and minimum wages!

no objection to poor people daring to want food that gives them some pleasure and comfort when precious little else can. Don't be so mean spirited OP. There's no need.

And I agree with this, too. I tend to buy cheaper products because I'm far from minted, and I buy them for myself, but I often donate trees - crips, chocolate biscuits, cakes and occasional packs of sweets.

If I had to use a food bank, it would cheer me up a little to have a small treat - and more importantly, to be able to give a treat to my children. It would show that whoever donated was seeing me as a human being, worthy of being treated well - not just "foddered".

There is some cold, Victorian "charity" in this country. Life is more than cabbage.

*treats, not trees

Foodbanks publish lists of their urgently needed items. Each one is different. This is from one near me.

TINNED FRUIT (400GMS)

COFFEE (SMALL JARS)/HOT CHOCOLATE

TEA BAGS

TINNED VEGETABLES (SWEETCORN, CARROTS, POTATOES, GREEN PEAS)

TINNED MEAT (CORNED BEEF/MINCE/CHICKEN)

JAM/HONEY/MARMITE/PEANUT BUTTER

LONG-LIFE FRUIT JUICE

HALAL FOOD ITEMS

TOILETRIES - DEODORANTS/MEN'S RAZORS/TOILET PAPER/SHOWER GELS/SINGLE TOOTHBRUSHES

RICE PUDDING AND CUSTARD

KETCHUP & MAYONNAISE

The reality of a food parcel for those going on about nuts, steak and oatly

YABU

Reminds me of a book I read. The plot was rich people making money by selling cheap shitty meat that they wouldn’t eat themselves.

Why not aim for everyone to have a decent standard of living instead of being quick to grind people down.

@SaltyAndFresh well it is comparable sometimes, people who’ve been raised vegan/vegetarian often can’t eat meat because it makes them extremely ill. That’s not any different to coeliac reaction to gluten.
The point is pretty moot anyway because no food bank is saving nuts for the vegans.

I think their chouce to be a vegan is fine but they then have to do it within what is available. If that means they eat a lot of lentils and chickpeas then so be it.

I agree about oat milk and other expensive foods. My family income is well into six figures but I couldn't part with the money Oatly Barista costs to replace all our milk use, it's ridiculously expensive.

I wouldn't donate money because I would feel I needed to give more and I can't. It wouldn't be viable to give the cost of 4 items a month or whatever. I can give something from my shopping without missing it, but a financial donation would not work for me. There is also the fact that I can put a little treat in sometimes, not just basics. I like to think that someone will smile at getting something nice

I agree. It also means that on the weeks you can afford it, you by something for others. own the weeks you can't you don't. I do this too, and always like to put in a little treat occasionally if I can, and at Christmas and Easter get advent calendars or eggs etc.

Even the children of the underserving poor can have a little treat.