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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Sacked for domestic abuse!

205 replies

Lindtballsrock · 31/08/2020 14:40

So I have been shocked to find out that one of my friends has lost her job, because she is a victim of domestic abuse. Her partner is an awful human being, who goes through this cycle of being extremely physically abusive, and then convincing her not to leave him by being all apologetic and full of promises that it won't happen again. She has alluded also to him having made threats that if she leaves he will 'find her' and I think she is really scared of him.

She ended up telling her employer about the abusive relationship because she needed to request a specific day off (finally she has made contact with a domestic abuse charity and they can see her that day). Her employer said that he's really sorry but he doesn't want someone who 'gets involved in this kind of situation' working for his company, and he thinks that she will not be a reliable employee so he has given her notice to that she is being sacked in a month!

She's worked there for 7 months and had passed her probation no problems last month, but apparently she has no legal right to challenge the employer because employers are allowed to discriminate against you for reasons to do with domestic abuse.

AIBU to think this is crazy and that it shouldn't be allowed?

There are some things employers cannot discriminate against - like pregnancy, disability, race etc. I think domestic abuse should be included in that list. Since getting involved in my friends situation I have seen there is a petition to get this law changed, link below if anyone is interested. Apparently the government are consulting at the moment on how domestic abuse victims can be better supported at work so it seems like they do recognise there is a problem. I just hope something changes because this is awful.

www.change.org/Protect_domestic_abuse_survivors

OP posts:
Lindtballsrock · 31/08/2020 15:54

Thank you for all the tips/advice, I will pass it all on. She’s not in London unfortunately and isn’t in a union but will be speaking to ACAS again and will see if she can get some free legal advice. As others have said though she’s not really got the energy for a big fight and will probably just try to move on. It just sucks though that this has happened.

OP posts:
Howallergic · 31/08/2020 15:56

lookingforamindatwork has the best chance of defence of this.

ChazsBrilliantAttitude · 31/08/2020 15:58

It can be indirect discrimination if men are treated the same way if overall women are disproportionately affected.

SentientAndCognisant · 31/08/2020 15:59

@Lindtballsrock
Try the National pro bono centre

Doccomplaint · 31/08/2020 16:00

What can she evidence? What can she prove?

What’s in her notice communications? (Email/letter)

QueSera · 31/08/2020 16:04

Doccomplaint and heartsonacake
Thanks - I hadn't realised that about the 2-year employement requirement. Really sad.

LakieLady · 31/08/2020 16:07

I'm with @Shamoo, I think this is indirect discrimination, because the vast majority of DA victims are women.

Bloody disgusting of her employer. No-one chooses to be abused, so I don't know what he's thinking of when he talks about people who would "get involved in this kind of thing". It happens across all social classes, occupations etc.

What an utter bastard. I'm so sorry for your friend, OP.

ProfessorSlocombe · 31/08/2020 16:08

I do think a lot of people don’t know/understand how Tory policies impact and disadvantage whole swathes of people

If the OPs friend is considering a tribunal, they should get their skates on before the government re-introduce tribunal fees again. I imagine that's pretty much a top priority, before firms start mass layoffs.

LakieLady · 31/08/2020 16:12

Yes, women are more likely to be victims of DH, but unless the employer treats men that have been involved in DV more favourably, there is no discrimination

I disagree. In the recent case regarding letting agents having a "no-one on benefits" rule for getting housing, it was found that there was indirect sex discrimination because single parents are more likely to be on benefits and the majority of single parents are women.

I think this is comparable.

itsgettingweird · 31/08/2020 16:16

@SchrodingersImmigrant

Even though I agree this is super cuntish thing to do and it shouldn't happen, I don't think victim of DV should be a protected characteristic. Sorry.
So if someone is raped by a stranger they should face the sack?

Or if they are victim of stalking?

Why DV?

You don't chose to be a victim of DA.

Personally I'd think more of an employee who recognised they were a custom and took steps to change it. It shows straight if character.

SentientAndCognisant · 31/08/2020 16:16

⬆️ Yes indeed
Essentially the Tories have stripped,eroded employment rights and access to legal aid and early legal help has been decimated

SchrodingersImmigrant · 31/08/2020 16:18

@SentientAndCognisant

Can I just ask out of interest, were people aware of this legislation? I do think a lot of people don’t know/understand how Tory policies impact and disadvantage whole swathes of people And get all it’s not right,that’s not fair and then forget. Until it directly affects them
Which legislation do you mean? I am just checking if i missed something here. Thread is moving fast
devildeepbluesea · 31/08/2020 16:18

Yes it would be potentially discrimination on the grounds of sex, for which you don't need 2 years' service. But I think it would actually be direct discrimination, although the comparator could still be problematic. Worth chatting to Acas though.

And she doesn't need cash to start an individual conciliation claim with Acas, it's a free service (I work for Acas). Very often the initial call from a conciliator is enough to get the company to settle.

lookingforamindatwork · 31/08/2020 16:19

She should submit a letter/email asking her employer to reconsider and putting them on notice that she is seeking further advice: The wording of the example I've done below is careful (eg saying 'I believe') because I am not a lawyer (I am HR qualified and a trade union rep).

"I wish to appeal the decision to dismiss me made on X date. You said you could not have someone with a domestic violence situation working for you. Not only was this insensitive, I believe it was sex discrimination on account of women being more likely to experience domestic violence. I also believe it was disability discrimination on account of the domestic violence impacting my mental health. I am seeking support for this and if you had given me the day off I requested to obtain this support, it could have been a reasonable adjustment as outlined in the Equality Act 2010. I hope, following this information, you will reconsider your decision to dismiss me. Please also be advised that I am seeking further advice from ACAS"

CloudsCanLookLikeSheep · 31/08/2020 16:20

Can she prove he sacked her for this reason? He could easily change his story of there is nothing in writing and say her performance was below par.

But yes you can be sacked for all sorts of unfair reasons in the first 2 years and it's not as easy to successfully argue indirect discrimination as some may think

CloudsCanLookLikeSheep · 31/08/2020 16:21

@lookingforamindatwork

She should submit a letter/email asking her employer to reconsider and putting them on notice that she is seeking further advice: The wording of the example I've done below is careful (eg saying 'I believe') because I am not a lawyer (I am HR qualified and a trade union rep).

"I wish to appeal the decision to dismiss me made on X date. You said you could not have someone with a domestic violence situation working for you. Not only was this insensitive, I believe it was sex discrimination on account of women being more likely to experience domestic violence. I also believe it was disability discrimination on account of the domestic violence impacting my mental health. I am seeking support for this and if you had given me the day off I requested to obtain this support, it could have been a reasonable adjustment as outlined in the Equality Act 2010. I hope, following this information, you will reconsider your decision to dismiss me. Please also be advised that I am seeking further advice from ACAS"

Does OP actually have a mh diagnosis that would fall within disability though?
SchrodingersImmigrant · 31/08/2020 16:22

*So if someone is raped by a stranger they should face the sack?

Or if they are victim of stalking?

Why DV?

You don't chose to be a victim of DA.

Personally I'd think more of an employee who recognised they were a custom and took steps to change it. It shows straight if character.*

Confused How did you arrive from my post to this, I will never knowHmm

Who said they should be sacked ffs. It shouldn't happen.

However, it also shouldn't be a protected characteristic.

Doccomplaint · 31/08/2020 16:23

If the friend doesn’t have a mh condition such as to be a disability, she can’t claim that.

Pobblebonk · 31/08/2020 16:23

@AryaStarkWolf

I have no knowledge on the laws around this but surely that has to count as unfair dismissal? The poor women, what kind of a cunt would fire someone so callously like that
No, because the woman in question hasn't been employed for long enough.
Pobblebonk · 31/08/2020 16:24

Is your friend in a union? It might just be possible to argue that this is sex discrimination, because women are inherently more likely to be the victims of domestic abuse than men. But I think she really needs a legal opinion on it, and a union might be able to access that for her.

Doccomplaint · 31/08/2020 16:25

@lookingforamindatwork

She should submit a letter/email asking her employer to reconsider and putting them on notice that she is seeking further advice: The wording of the example I've done below is careful (eg saying 'I believe') because I am not a lawyer (I am HR qualified and a trade union rep).

"I wish to appeal the decision to dismiss me made on X date. You said you could not have someone with a domestic violence situation working for you. Not only was this insensitive, I believe it was sex discrimination on account of women being more likely to experience domestic violence. I also believe it was disability discrimination on account of the domestic violence impacting my mental health. I am seeking support for this and if you had given me the day off I requested to obtain this support, it could have been a reasonable adjustment as outlined in the Equality Act 2010. I hope, following this information, you will reconsider your decision to dismiss me. Please also be advised that I am seeking further advice from ACAS"

Sorry that was what my response was in reply to
janetmendoza · 31/08/2020 16:27

The two years employment thing is terrible. I did know about it and when I tell people they find it so hard to believe. But this is what people voted for! Although they didn't know they were doing that for the most part. But it is so depressing what people sleepwalk into. Brexit of course will impinge on workers rights even more.

CloudsCanLookLikeSheep · 31/08/2020 16:30

I work in HR and the first thing the manager wants to know when considering sacking someone is if they have more than 2 years service.

We had someone sacked last year for refusing to attend the xmas party (he could go, but fell out with his boss just before, and had hotel/meal paid for). He had just under 2 years service.

Florencex · 31/08/2020 16:31

If the friend doesn’t have a MH condition such as to be a disability, she can’t claim that.

And furthermore, she cannot claim it retrospectively. If the employer has not been told of a disability they cannot be expected to make reasonable adjustments. Announcing a disability after notice has been serviced will not help in the slightest.

FluffyKittensinabasket · 31/08/2020 16:33

Employers can do whatever they want unfortunately.

I only work in the public sector or for very large private sector companies with policies and procedures over dismissal.

CloudsCanLookLikeSheep - are you saying somebody was sacked for not going to the Christmas party?!