If you can do your job from home then it can be done from India...

[Bewareoftheblob]

This is what my brother has been told by his employers. He works in a small office in a city centre and can work remotely. He admits that their efficiency, especially in terms of the quality of customer service, has been compromised by the team working from home.

They've all been told to go back to the office from mid September, which he is reluctant to do, mainly because he dislikes the commute and has enjoyed being at home with his wife and toddler.

When he (and, I think, some other team members) requested an extension to working from home, they were told in no uncertain terms to get back in to the office, and that they should be wary because 'if you can do your job from home, it can probably be done from India', which my brother has taken as a threat of redundancy.

They were also asked if they didn't feel guilty about the impact they were having on the economy and other people's livelihood - I assume they meant transport/Costa/Pret etc. They were asked to have more of a community spirit. It's a pretty informal place, not very 'corporate' which is why I assume it's been worded in this way!

What do you think? I'm torn to be honest, I totally understand why my brother wants to work from home, but whilst I don't think his company expressed themselves very well, I can see their point too.

So I suppose it's more are they being unreasonable rather than am I being unreasonable!

I do appreciate the danger of the knock on effect of customer service workers losing their jobs. I work providing a service to key workers, but it's an optional service that has to be paid for by taxes.

I'm not daft to the fact that my job might be at risk because of the pandemic, even though we're positioned to be part of the solution.

But I think trying to put the genie back in the lamp is an impossible task. This is just another evolution of the global jobs market. Factories replaced the cottage industry. WW1 saw women working in numbers unthought of previously. The rise of the supermarket destroyed the butcher and the baker. The invention of the car...

Evolution can only occur by old practices dying. I can't imagine this will be painless, but it can't be stopped by a few articles in the Mail pleading on behalf of the old ways either.

ErrolTheDragon - there won’t be enough jobs for 70 million people. Retail will be all Amazon fulfilment centre style. No need for millions of shop assistants.

Not everyone can retain to be a nurse or doctor. We don’t need 70 million healthcare professionals.

One popular theory is that the elite will live in gated palaces. The rest of us will be scrambling around in the dust for food like peasants. Your job being outsourced to India is a short term problem. Long term there won’t actually be any jobs.

of course there will be some casualties

but there also will be many winners - it's already happening, some industries have had an enormous boost and it's not going to go down.

Like with any time of change, some will angrily protest, others will welcome it, but ultimately change is happening.

The pandemic is nowhere near over, so it's a bit too early to pretend we are in the aftermath anyway.

We are also looking at a complete collapse of society. Your job being outsourced to India will be of no consequence in the upcoming global warming disasters, famine and wars. The person in India who has your job probably won’t hold onto it for very long.

Evolution can only occur by old practices dying. I can't imagine this will be painless, but it can't be stopped by a few articles in the Mail pleading on behalf of the old ways either.

You're quite right. I just hope people are as philosophical when it's their jobs going rather than someone who works at Pret.

Long term there won’t actually be any jobs.

I think this was the argument against the Spinning Jenny.

There will be jobs, just different ones, and ones we can't even imagine yet. Every early job my mum did (typist, switchboard operator, punchcard operative) no longer exists yet she was employed full time until she retired.

It’ll be hard to be paid for doing a job when the entire economic system has collapsed.

We are also looking at a complete collapse of society.
well, the virus is mutating and will reach a 99.9% death rates, the survivors will end up eating each other until a crazy one press the button to annihilate the rest of them, the end.

Might just book that holiday to the Maldives whilst the world still exists then, clock is ticking

You're quite right. I just hope people are as philosophical when it's their jobs going rather than someone who works at Pret.

This, this, this, this. I actually find it quite sickening on this thread to see people going 'well, there will be winners and losers' while making it very clear that they smugly assume that they'll be winners.

My dh has been saying this for months (he’s an employer). Unfortunately this situation has made many employers realise they don’t need the staff/office facilities etc in the same way nowadays. I fear many people will be losing their jobs in the coming depression. Experts are saying it may not even fully hit for another couple of years.

while making it very clear that they smugly assume that they'll be winners.

or maybe... just maybe... they are well aware that things are changing and they are actually making plans to adapt and ride the wave, instead of mopping and doing nothing

@SantaClaritaDiet

while making it very clear that they smugly assume that they'll be winners.

or maybe... just maybe... they are well aware that things are changing and they are actually making plans to adapt and ride the wave, instead of mopping and doing nothing

Ooh you managed to get smugger still! Impressive! (Typo made me smile, though - oddly apposite as workers in empty Prets probably are mopping and doing nothing. I'm sure if they were as clever as you though they'd just turn it all around.)

@tentative3

Evolution can only occur by old practices dying. I can't imagine this will be painless, but it can't be stopped by a few articles in the Mail pleading on behalf of the old ways either.

You're quite right. I just hope people are as philosophical when it's their jobs going rather than someone who works at Pret.

I mean, I did say in the very same post that I don't even think my job is particularly secure. It depends of key workers choosing to spend tax money on our services.

I don't make any great claims to philosophy. I just have a history degree that can be summarised as "shit happens". But... All the good things we have today came from pain too.

There's no smugness in it, it's just how it is and how it's always been. On the bright side, the supervolcano under Yellowstone National Park is also overdue an eruption.

If the standard of the work has been impacted, the workers whose work has been impacted the most need to go back to the office, socially distanced.

It's not really to do with costa and pret. Whilst I do feel very sorry for people losing their jobs, the bullshit that we are "all in it together" is the biggest load of rubbish I have ever heard. What about the person who let their dog shit on my driveway yesterday? Is that person in it with me? No, that person it in it for themselves. Too many selfish and antisocial people mean that we are most certainly not all in it together.

If productivity has dropped off from where it was when you were in ghr office than yes employer should be saying time to get bsck to the office so their business can at least survive if not grow so they can still pay your husband and keep them in a job. So long as employer follows covid rules to keep people safe.

People moaning how its unfair, they have to travel and pay etc well you did it before and what would you rather have that or no job cos productivity went down and business didn't survive.

Boris is just looking out for his rich mates who own commercial property in city centres
It's very important that they are kept in the manner to which they have become accustomed

@Bewareoftheblob, I think that training depends a lot on the type of work done. Our company is in financial services and we hired 10 new people in the last month to different departments. They were all trained online - lots of screenshare, lots of zoom time etc. What I've noticed is that the communication within teams as well as between different dpts - but also different offices (geographically) went up in terms of quantity and quality. Our C-suite took WFH very seriously and created a 'Virtual Culture' team comprised of several Dpth heads who came up with communication strategy (including training). Of course there are hiccups here and there - but overall its been working great.

@SantaClaritaDiet

of course there will be some casualties

but there also will be many winners - it's already happening, some industries have had an enormous boost and it's not going to go down.

Like with any time of change, some will angrily protest, others will welcome it, but ultimately change is happening.

The pandemic is nowhere near over, so it's a bit too early to pretend we are in the aftermath anyway.

I suspect there will be many casualties

And some winners

If his employer wants them back to improve efficiency, plus it’s their normal way of working, then it’s not unreasonable to tell them to go back. We’re all back to school next week, although I’d quite like to carry on being at home!

My employer tried to outsource a few simple tasks to India a few years ago. We never heard about the outcome...
And they're now back to desperately trying to hire highly qualified local expertise. Some jobs can't be outsourced that easily...

Needless to say, me and my colleagues are all happily working from home till further notice. Expertise is hard to find, and harder still to retain.

Most of the losers will be women. I dread to see a return to the promotion of the ‘50s housewife’ as aspirational, so women lose their financial independence to ensure there are more jobs for men.☹️

If their productivity is low then it’s reasonable to ask them to return. I’m working from home and yes it does have its advantages but we all know it can’t last forever for most. Enjoy it whilst it lasts

If productivity is down then I understand why the employer wants the staff back. Staff have obviously taken the pee so it serves them rignt if they have to go back.

I wouldn't take the comment about indian workers as a threat of redundancy though. A company can't just make staff redundant and get others to do the same job. They are probably just frustrated at workers not returning.

I must admit that I have realised how much money I waste in Costas and am not planning to do so in the future. Money we are saving on transport costs, Costa, etc will go back into the economy but probably in the form of Home Improvements, decorating, furnishings. I reckon DIY shops, after going through a few leaner years, will be on their way up again.

If the employer allows wfh then that's different to a person who wants to wfh because they did so as an emergency option for their employer. If wfh isn't possible then find a job where it is

Customer service has been compromised with them working from home. Plenty people will want his job, he doesn't have to go back.
It sounds like he managed the office ok before, and so many people being made redundant and job searching. I'd be telling him he's lucky to be keeping his job and not to rock the boat tbh.