The end of the private back garden? AIBU to think this is a crap idea?

[2beesornot2beesthatisthehoney]

www.msn.com/en-gb/news/uknews/architects-hope-to-tear-down-garden-fences-of-englands-future-homes/ar-BB18huJd

Reported in the Guardian this morning. The shortlist of developers drawn up to attempt solve our housing crisis by new design
includes the idea of communal back gardens that have to be booked in advance to use privately!

Oh yes I can see that going down really well on Mumsnet future AIBU

"My next door neighbour overstayed their time"
"I hate sharing and want peace and quiet"
"Cynthia has just repotted all my begonias"
"Can I put a swing up in the communal garden, the neighbours are complaining"

AIBU to think that this is just a really crap idea?

Something like this works where the central area is shared, because the shared area is huge and if one family were using it another family would just use a different bit. However if they're talking about a garden which is maybe double the size of a standard garden but shared between four houses it wouldnt work.

Having enjoyed communal gardens in flats, I can't say I dislike the idea. I don't like the maintenance of a garden, but I like the space. It would encourage children to play out together. Plus with dog owners, those who are renting get the chance to interact with dogs and pets when they can't own them.

But I'm a weirdo who doesn't care much for privacy. My dh would hate it.

Anything that depends on the people around you is destined to fail because other people won't give a shit about rules, consideration for others etc. You may be lucky and get like minded neighbours who contribute to upkeep, keep it tidy, respect others, etc., but how can you guarantee that? What happens in years to come when other people have moved in and just do what the hell they want and stick tow fingers up at everyone else? How can you "enforce" the rules? It's another idea for the "good in theory, crap in practice" file. You'd need a VERY strong residents' association to monitor/supervise it and there'd need to be some kind of way of enforcing it, i.e. via fines, non returnable deposits, etc.

No thanks.

When you buy a house you buy the land. Private land. Most people want/need some private space to call their own.

Having to share all outdoor grounds makes me think of apartment living back in the USSR..

@NotQuiteUsual

Having enjoyed communal gardens in flats, I can't say I dislike the idea. I don't like the maintenance of a garden, but I like the space. It would encourage children to play out together. Plus with dog owners, those who are renting get the chance to interact with dogs and pets when they can't own them.

But I'm a weirdo who doesn't care much for privacy. My dh would hate it.

Presumably all the leaseholders paid for the communal gardens to be maintained as part of the tenancy agreement?

I can see loads of problems with this idea. But also I do think that we need much better design than modern house builder excuses for 'gardens' which are often tiny squares of boggy grass surrounded by high fences and parking spaces and absolutely hopeless from a point of view of cultivating or supporting biodiversity.

It might work for some people and I know that in inner cities there are lots Of people with no garden at all but thinking about how I use my garden over the years....

We have guinea pigs, they live inside but we often put them in an outside pen in nice weather for a munch on the grass. We know that we haven’t used weed killer and we know that there aren’t dogs etc also using the garden to bark at them and terrify them.

Kids have trampoline and over the years various other play things. Often had a paddling pool filled for several days in the summer. Would we be able to do that? You would get other kids using it possibly breaking it. Would we be responsible if another child used our equipment and seriously hurt themselves. In today’s litigious society I wouldn’t want to take the risk.

Would everyone have thier own washing line? Would you feel comfortable having your knickers on display while someone else was using the garden? Would you even be able to leave your washing out? Would you want to have a bbq etc worrying about other people’s washing?

Who would maintain the garden? Lots of arguments over who’s turn to low the grass. What if one person worked long hours or had a disability?

Some selfish person would probably put a block booking in

Unable to be spontaneous and have an impromptu bbq or friends round

Wouldn’t be able to leave the kids playing while you get one with something inside. You wouldn’t be able to rely on all exits/peoples back doors being secure

Where would you store rubbish?

Kids wouldn’t be able to camp in the back garden.

Growing veg - would others take it/ dogs poo on your veg patch? Watering would be awkward if the only time you have to water is while someone else is using the garden.

Who decides what flowers etc? What if someone is allergic to something? What if none person likes to use weed killer and pesticides/ant killer and another is vegan hates killing bugs etc

Young kids couldn’t run around half naked as they tend to do.

Wouldn’t be able to leave anything in the garden unattended just in case it went missing eg leave iPad not able while you pop to loo

Would you be able to have parties in the garden?

You would be able to see straight into other peoples back doors/windows. So wouldn’t even feel completely private in your house.

Horses for courses. For some people a no-maintenance, pleasant outdoor space would be perfect. Different life stages, gardens become more important. As another poster mentioned, some Edinburgh communal gardens are gorgeous and can put a huge premium on property prices. If my choice was a flat with no outside space, or a house with shared garden, I'd go for the shared garden. If it was between a shared garden and 3 acres of land then I'd obviously go for that. However, few people have the luxury of that choice.

Most Architects under 40 do not earn amazing money and live in apartments, particularly in expensive areas of the country, with no back gardens!

This! I have several architects' practices as clients. In view of the amount of training they have to do, and the hours they work, most are woefully underpaid.

And I like gardening! I like looking at plants, deciding what to put where, changing it all up depending on seasons... that's why I bought a house with a little garden. It's my space, to do as I like.

It just seems, as a pp said, a way to force first time buyers and those on a very limited budget to have to 'go without'.

And we all KNOW that those 'communal gardens' are going to end up 'owned' by the big bloke who lives on the end and has four very big and very aggressive dogs, don't we?

I had a communal garden until around 6 months ago. Obviously didn't have to book time slots because it was a 4 in a block, we had out own land just shared areas and no fences. We finally convinced the neighbours to agree to splitting the garden and we have our own private are. Took us 10 years, and I've never been happier in my home!

A communal garden could work ok but only if everyone had a little bit of private space as well (for chairs, tables, paddling pool). Especially if it had a communal playground, that would save everyone having to buy individual play equipment to clog up their small gardens. And if there was an area for ball games, that would be great for children. The kids would have other kids around them to play with as they got older which would be lovely given the increase in one child families....And if the garden is all enclosed by residents' houses/fencing and no traffic access, it would be safe.

Hated the idea at first, but actually can see the advantages (scowling at slide, climbing frame and mini football goals taking over my tiny garden ).

@Zaphodsotherhead They are called "town houses" they are aimed at people who don't want outside space.

OP one of my friends' lived in a house with a communal garden. It was just a big field you entered by a locked gate. It was never used as all the flats had their own balconies and all the houses had a small private garden The gate was near the gates of the houses gardens so you wouldn' know it was there. I also suspect that private landlords who owned some of the properties didn't bother giving their tenants a key to prevent trouble, while the owner-occupiers tended to be workers who had no time to spend in the garden.

Who would maintain this communal area? (obviously communal charges).
Who organises the maintenance?
Would be safe for my toddlers to play? (I would not be able to leave them outside).
Would I be able to have my patio furniture, and eat outside?
Would this comply with social distances rules, in this or any future pandemic?
There is a case for saying that new estates should be built with smallish gardens (they already are), compared to gardens from the 1930s (mine), which could easily be smaller.

I believe flats have these.
It's called a park.

They're not introverts!

Developers have been slowly pushing the boundary with new build buyers for years. First it was lack of adaquate parking hence all the parking wars with narrow streets so people park on the pavement. They solved that with "mixed use" meaning no more pavements and cars and pedestrians are meant to share the space. Fabulous solution with kids and disabled folk or anyone not wanting to dodge traffic. No closets or storage. Gardens the size of postal stamps but aha we can get MORE houses on if we don't have to leave those 3cm between the houses and the garden is shared! Communal gardens work fine in places like London where the majority of people are young professionals and not families. When the majority are families with feral kids this will be a nightmare.

Communal gardens aren't the astonishing rarity pp on this thread seem to think they are. Most of my family had them when I was small. I'd rather have a communal garden than none whatsoever and if we're going to get upset about something housing related I'm saving my ire for right to buy, a propped up housing market, newbuilds being tiny shoeboxes without decent storage and buy to let mortgages.

I don't like the idea but can I point out there is a difference between Developers and Architects. Equally, Architect's have to design a percentage affordable housing with any new scheme that Councillors have to approve. That's a fair point about Architects, agreed the average salary is low compared to other skilled professionals. Still I would imagine the initial concept of communal gardens and living likely came from someone senior who is a trained Architect and unlikely to live in such a development themselves. Admittedly my knowledge of the industry is now pretty dated and I don't know anything about the structure of these particular companies, so I may be off mark with this assumption.

We're looked at buying a holiday home abroad. The smaller "shared" outside spaces really put us off, i.e. 2/3/4 units sharing a small pool or garden. The only ones we are seriously considering are those with huge areas of outside space, i.e. 10/20/30 units sharing a large pool area or the complex set in large gardens/park areas.

This comes out of renting holiday apartments/villas etc 2 or 3 times a year for the last 20 years, so we have lots of experience. You need plenty of space to spread out so that your "neighbours from hell" can be diluted, i.e. if they're in one corner, you can go in the opposite corner, if they're at the back, you can go to the front, etc.

It's why, even in the UK, a large cluster of houses around a central green or around a field works well - people have the space to spread themselves out.

@BrieAndChilli lots of housing estates, both social (though doesn't tend to be those built recently) and private, have children's playgrounds somewhere on the estate. If you pass one or visit someone who lives in one you find that there are children of all ages playing out in them in summer. The people who live on the estate pay for the upkeep of the equipment and it is just normal playground equipment.

Absolutely dreadful idea.
Who are these ridiculous architects???

@milveycrohn the builder puts in a management company. My friend who had access to a communal garden use to pay something like £50 a year to cover the maintenance of the grounds. This included the communal garden, parking spaces and random things. It helped that it was a mixed development of houses and flats.

It reminds me, as an American here, how weird I thought the gardens were once you hit the midwest and States like Minnesota, Illinois, Indiana, Ohio. The Coen Brothers' film A Serious Man shows a good example of these gardens. I get palpitations just thinking of all of the enforced social interaction that must happen courtesy of having no privacy!
I'd be growing a laurel hedge or bamboo screen.

Good grief! We KNOW how communal gardens work. Those of us that live in flats have lots of experience.

For every lovely communal garden that has neighbours bonding over making it a beautiful space and sharing jolly bbqs in the evening under the fairy lights you have 100:

• Green or grey deserts that nobody takes ownership of
• Owned by default by the big dog owner who lets their dog piss and shit with abandon and never clears up
• Owned by default by the big bloke with shrieking kids who leaves toys scattered all over and goes mad if anyone else touches them
• Owned by default by the couple who spent a lot of time making it "naice" and go mad if anyone else touches anything
• Owned by default by the asocial flat mates who dragged an old sofa out there and sit smoking and drinking every night until 3am (and never clear their empties)
• Rubbish tip

Around here it's mostly desert or rubbish tip because there's a high turnover of residents. My colleague is plagued by trampolines and old sofa with beer cans and never ventures out in his.

This is just the outdoor version of open plan kitchen/living spaces. In upmarket properties they're spacious and lovely. In all other properties they're a way for the developer to get away with less overall sq meterage and cut costs.

@diplodocusinermine

Shared gardens may have worked years ago when people were societally more prepared to consider their neighbours. These days? Not a hope.

This.

Wouldn't buy one of these in a million years.