The end of the private back garden? AIBU to think this is a crap idea?

[2beesornot2beesthatisthehoney]

www.msn.com/en-gb/news/uknews/architects-hope-to-tear-down-garden-fences-of-englands-future-homes/ar-BB18huJd

Reported in the Guardian this morning. The shortlist of developers drawn up to attempt solve our housing crisis by new design
includes the idea of communal back gardens that have to be booked in advance to use privately!

Oh yes I can see that going down really well on Mumsnet future AIBU

"My next door neighbour overstayed their time"
"I hate sharing and want peace and quiet"
"Cynthia has just repotted all my begonias"
"Can I put a swing up in the communal garden, the neighbours are complaining"

AIBU to think that this is just a really crap idea?

Any architect who is decent and didn't just decide to let mummy and daddy pay for them to get the qualifications, will not be doing this I can assure you.

witheringrowan

Actually, that looks really nice! In my mind, I'm envisioning 'American' communal gardens from the suburbs of the '70s/'80s.
And actually, the courtyard in those photos you linked us too is about the size of a London garden. I guess my judgment is coloured by where I live now. I'm thinking as a Londoner, where our gardens are small and backed up against each other. If we were fenceless in my neighbourhood, I'd hate to think how savage we'd become. There'd be no survivors!
But actually, the link you posted shows something I couldn't envision.

I have a communal back garden. It's common where I live (lots of flats).
It's not perfect, but it's better than having no garden.
My neighbours don't use it that much. It's not really maintained but at least somewhere I can go outside. My little one loves exploring- especially the overgrown bits.

I think it can work well- depends a bit on who lives there.

We have a communal back garden in our block of flats, it is lovely. Little playground, lovely wild flower borders, a gazebo and bbq spot, little hill and forest bit, some fruits etc growing and huge trees for shade. People's balconies look out onto it and we spend most evenings out there with the neighbours who have similar ages kids. It is amazing. The costs are paid through mandatory building fees so people can opt in to help if they like but nobody is obliged and it always looks good. However. DH and I have had a few conversations about how we think this concept wouldn't work in the UK (we are mainland Europe). The mentality of the people is different here and that is a big part of it working well (I like both countries, but there are definitely differences in culture!)

@Badbadbunny people already do this.

In newer developments the developer already has sorted out a management company to deal with this. Similar in blocks of flats. In older ones in central London there is a landowner.

@fwwaftp your neighbour is an idiot. There are bushes she can grow that block people view of her garden.

Given how many threads we see on here about shouty, sweary, weed smoking, antisocial neighbours, I can't see how it comes close to being workable.

So, despite "owning" your own house and "owning" a share of the communal land, you'd be happy to pay for maintenance, such as gardening, lawn mowing, property management to supervise/administer it all, etc?

Yes of course - that is the nature of leasehold blocks. The service charge covers maintenance to all external /shared areas, not just the garden. How do you think roof maintenance, guttering, communal doors are maintained in shared blocks? Some mansion blocks even include heating in the service charge from huge communal boilers (although that is less common nowadays).

IME the level of maintenance/spend on the gardens was discussed at leaseholder meetings (unlike roof maintenance its a more flexible area of spending).

Blocks of flats with service kitchens, gyms, spas etc have mind boggling service charges but again you presumably wouldn't buy a flat with all those extras if you didn't want to use them.

@witheringrowan

Sounds like the Accordia development in Cambridge which has worked very well www.dezeen.com/2008/10/11/accordia-wins-stirling-prize/ www.paving.org.uk/documents/accordia.pdf (site plan on page 2)

Houses still have private roof terraces or courtyards, but most of the garden space is communal. It's a layout that allows greater housing density, so putting less pressure on land availability, without losing access to green space. It was built over a decade ago, follow up research has suggested that this type of layout promoted more community cohesion and more time spent outside than traditional terrace street development.

Those do look really good - the communial areas seems to be very overlooked by balconies and windows - which means there a degree of social policing going on but also having balconies and roof terriace mean you can be outside and private if you choose.

It does look well thought though.

I do wonder if they can dry washing on the balconies though - when we lived in a flat with a large balcony - rented - it wasn't allowed it was expressly forbidden which meant drying inside with associated damp issues or tumble drying.

This can only work where everyone is of the same demographic and has similar ideas about what a garden should be used for. You also have to have rules like no dogs, no large gatherings without remission, etc. Otherwise it becomes a nightmare for everyone.

So basically building flats

Terrible idea.

I want to be able to own dogs and for them to have the freedom of being able to go in and out of their own little garden, not be trapped inside because the space is communal.

The architect pictures show most of the garden taken up by veg growing. Yet almost all allotments in real life are not communal, so presumably are not a popular idea.

The smallest garden of your own at least allows kids and pets a small amount of freedom without you having to hover over them in case they get snatched/ get into danger/ bother other people.

I have people
I know who brought a house with a communual garden but houses also have a small private garden then between them a larger landscaped type garden out the front that i believe they all maintain between them.
Haven't seen them since they bought it so not sure how its working out
Feell its one of those things that could go great and a real community feel to tits up if you get the wrong neighbour

Can't help but notice that a number of the people saying they know of instances where it works well then give examples of situations where houses have their own small private garden as well as communal access to a presumably larger space. It isn't the same thing at all.

Developers will keep building their shoddy, overpriced, little boxes on smaller and smaller plots as long as there is a demand for them. Give me a knackered old Victorian terrace any day - built to last, lots of potential, with decent sized rooms.

It will never happen in the U.K. people value their privacy/private spaces.

If it made the difference between people being able to rent and buy then I can see it'd be a good idea but in reality what will happen is that 'exclusive' or 'executive' homes will be built in grounds with manicured gardens that need an expensive service charge to maintain rather than affordable, starter housing with a small shared garden.

I'm sure Boris has a hand in this. He wants to be able to spy on the public more easily, to make sure they're not having illicit gatherings during some future Cromwellian regime.

What about children? I thought we were concerned about the lack of exercise this generation is getting? Playing in the street isn’t really the done thing anymore in most places and now they won’t even have access to a garden to play in (outside of their booked slot)

@Shizzlestix

It will never happen in the U.K. people value their privacy/private spaces.

I think the past few years have pretty much shown that people in the UK get what they are given.

Market forces will dictate.

People who want them will buy, other people won't, plans will change accordingly.

No one will be forced to buy a house with a shared garden.

But look at it another way- some of the poshest homes in London used to share a garden square, where all residents had a key to the garden. (An ex of mine lived in one like tha in South Kensington.)

Surely people buy a house precisely so that they don't have to tolerate "communal" anything? What is this, East Germany? The famous architect Le Corbusier once described a house as "a machine for living in". What tripe. So much modern architecture is ugly and inhuman. These people should focus on designing things that people take pleasure in looking at, walking past and living in rather than foisting their neo-Communist, outdated thinking on people who they themselves can afford to live far away from! All architects should ne forced to live for 6 months in any house that they design LOL.

Yes of course - that is the nature of leasehold blocks. The service charge covers maintenance to all external /shared areas, not just the garden. How do you think roof maintenance, guttering, communal doors are maintained in shared blocks? Some mansion blocks even include heating in the service charge from huge communal boilers (although that is less common nowadays).

Not all. I live in a block of terraced leasehold maisonettes and pay no maintenance fees and are responsible for the maintenance ourselves. The only charges we have are ground rent (which will go when we renew the lease) and buildings insurance. When we lived in our previous flat we paid maintenance charges and got sod all apart from nice gardens in return.

If it made the difference between people being able to rent and buy then I can see it'd be a good idea

Personally I'd rather rent than share the garden

"should BE forced", sorry...

@C8H10N4O2

So, despite "owning" your own house and "owning" a share of the communal land, you'd be happy to pay for maintenance, such as gardening, lawn mowing, property management to supervise/administer it all, etc?

Yes of course - that is the nature of leasehold blocks. The service charge covers maintenance to all external /shared areas, not just the garden. How do you think roof maintenance, guttering, communal doors are maintained in shared blocks? Some mansion blocks even include heating in the service charge from huge communal boilers (although that is less common nowadays).

IME the level of maintenance/spend on the gardens was discussed at leaseholder meetings (unlike roof maintenance its a more flexible area of spending).

Blocks of flats with service kitchens, gyms, spas etc have mind boggling service charges but again you presumably wouldn't buy a flat with all those extras if you didn't want to use them.

You miss my point about "owning" a "house". We're not talking about flats where you have a leasehold and there are communal areas such as landings, stairs, roof, etc. that are jointly owned so the communal land can be just an "add on" to the rest of the building. We're talking about individual freehold homes where the owner looks after their own property, liable for repairs etc. If you add communal areas, then you're getting into some kind of twilight zone with a mix of freehold/leasehold for the same property, i.e. freehold of the house but leasehold of the communal garden area somehow bound together in the deeds. Sounds like a recipe for confusion and conflict to me.