To think people are over looking the benefits of going to work

[Poptart4]

I keep hearing about how great working from home is. No commute, saving money, more family time etc.

But I think people are over looking the benefit's of actually going to work.

• Getting out of the house, personally I dont think its healthy to spend all (most) of your time within the same 4 walls.
• The social aspect of working. Alot of people make friends or at least acquaintances through work.
• I know alot of people who met their partner through work. And alot who just had fun casual hook ups with co-workers. Either way there will be less chances at romance because you will have less social interaction.
• As a mother I find going out to work gives me a life outside of being mammy. It gives me a little independence for myself. If I was working from home all of the time I would never be away from the children. Never get a break.
• No after work drinks, office xmas parties etc.
• I've also read some threads on here about couples fighting because one or both of them is working from home and there getting on each others nerves. Couples need time apart.

I really think once the novelty of working from home wears off alot of people are going to miss the hustle and bustle of office life. And alot of people are going to end up depressed. Especially for people who live alone. The lack of social interaction will impact them the most.

the other thing of course, is that all the money they love saving on travel, clothes, lunches, even the demise of the dreaded Christmas party, is other people's jobs. Again no one sees cares about the wider picture. It's all I'm alright Jack

We've yet to see how working life will change in the long-term, but if it does shift to much greater home working, I don't think we should artificially bring people back into offices to create other jobs - things evolve - it would be like saying no one should have a mobile phone because it puts the people who empty the money out of call boxes out of work.

I don’t have children or a partner or proper office space at home and I like my colleagues. I still prefer WFH. In my organisation it hasn’t affected progression opportunities at all - jobs and promotions are still being recruited, but people are interviewing and working remotely. A decent company won’t use WFH as an excuse to hinder people’s progression if the same work can be done remotely, which is the case for many office based roles

@Pelleas

the other thing of course, is that all the money they love saving on travel, clothes, lunches, even the demise of the dreaded Christmas party, is other people's jobs. Again no one sees cares about the wider picture. It's all I'm alright Jack

We've yet to see how working life will change in the long-term, but if it does shift to much greater home working, I don't think we should artificially bring people back into offices to create other jobs - things evolve - it would be like saying no one should have a mobile phone because it puts the people who empty the money out of call boxes out of work.

"We" do things to artificially create jobs all the time. Every regeneration scheme has been for exactly that purpose. There are loads of jobs that wouldn't exist if it hadn't been for someone in the past setting up a scheme to create work.

[quote FinnyStory]@Undercovermuvver I think you're absolutely right and it's (another) disaster waiting to happen for our young people but these people determined that home working works are only thinking about themselves and they're confident that the changes you mention will take long enough to become widespread, that it won't affect them during what's left of their working lives.

The other thing of course, is that all the money they love saving on travel, clothes, lunches, even the demise of the dreaded Christmas party, is other people's jobs. Again no one sees cares about the wider picture. It's all I'm alright Jack.[/quote]
Hey Finnystory, this isn’t going to happen when these people are in a position to retire. If I were a business owner, I would already have been scoping this for next year. Bugger paying Anne, Daniel etc 40k per year when I can pay a quarter of that by outsourcing and getting the same result.

I am sorry but hate to repeat: we are sleepwalking into an oblivion that once, changed, will send the business market in this country to die a death that will not just change all of our lives but possibly send us into a depression that equals no other.

We NEED for the sake of the UK, to get back to work. Be sensible, do what you need to do but for Christ sake, crack on.

I think there is a balance to be had. I would happily work from home 5 days a week, as would my husband. However a lot of my current team is global so we don't see each other face to face anyway. But I do think that social interaction is important, and more important to some than others, so I think that having team/meeting days in the office, be that weekly or monthly would be a good idea.

I do not think that we should force people to go back to London to save jobs of supporting industries because I don't believe that will work. We should not, and cannot, stop the world from moving forward.

Also I have worked with offshore teams around the globe and believe me when I say that it is not all that great. It does not always work and the 'savings' come at a cost. Paying someone less to take 5 times longer to do something is not cheaper.
I pay more for a tester in our 'cheap' global centre than I would for someone in the UK. Training is nearly impossible, there are cultural problems, time differences, language barriers and so many other issues.

Someone in our local commuter area has created a social community for commuters and arranges weekly meetups at local pubs etc. I think that is quite a good solution as well. It brings money into local communities and I think it is better long term solution as money will be spent within the communities and not at big corporate pubs/restaurants. We can choose to support our local small business instead of Pret and Eat. Much better for our communities.

@Bekksy

I think there is a balance to be had. I would happily work from home 5 days a week, as would my husband. However a lot of my current team is global so we don't see each other face to face anyway. But I do think that social interaction is important, and more important to some than others, so I think that having team/meeting days in the office, be that weekly or monthly would be a good idea.

I do not think that we should force people to go back to London to save jobs of supporting industries because I don't believe that will work. We should not, and cannot, stop the world from moving forward.

Also I have worked with offshore teams around the globe and believe me when I say that it is not all that great. It does not always work and the 'savings' come at a cost. Paying someone less to take 5 times longer to do something is not cheaper.
I pay more for a tester in our 'cheap' global centre than I would for someone in the UK. Training is nearly impossible, there are cultural problems, time differences, language barriers and so many other issues.

Someone in our local commuter area has created a social community for commuters and arranges weekly meetups at local pubs etc. I think that is quite a good solution as well. It brings money into local communities and I think it is better long term solution as money will be spent within the communities and not at big corporate pubs/restaurants. We can choose to support our local small business instead of Pret and Eat. Much better for our communities.

It will not move forward though. The amount of unemployment will see taxes raised, more crime and I am not talking of just London. We need to get all cities back to normal, otherwise who is going to pay for half the country not working any more.

When you think of the city of London being stone cold dead at the moment, work out the casualties;

Train companies forced to reduce staff and operate less trains in order to make one train make up the money.

Coffee shops closing because there isn’t anyone to buy coffee.

Dry cleaners/shoe repair finished.

Then any lunch places closed because there isn’t anyone to buy lunch.

Any retail around cities closed because no one is popping out in their lunch hour anymore.

Pubs closed, no customers.

Taxis, no customers.

Building off offices, that ship has sailed.

All of those people took their wages back to their towns or cities and spent money. Now they can’t so have to go on the dole. Who is exactly going to pay for that?

Do you kind of get what I mean?

@IrmaFayLear

On this thread - and, frankly on anything to do with Covid - I have seen so many people absolutely unable to see a situation from another’s point of view. Actually, let’s make that any subject!

Over and over again through the years on MN I have seen posters calling other people saddos for hoping to make friends at the school gate, or wanting a chat at work. “I already have friends” they post; obviously having met friends and partner as a foetus.

And on this thread there are those sneering at anyone who actually might welcome going into a workplace, and not recognising that not everyone is a self-satisfied 40-something.

Like TheSeasideSlide, surely people can have some empathy for others, even if they’re well-suited themselves? Apparently not, it seems.

There's been plenty of sneering from the other side on here too. Apparently people who like wfh home are "life's takers" who don't want to help their colleagues and who want to "pull the ladder up after them"(Whatever that means in this scenario! What ladder? Nobody has suggested that everbody should wfh whether they like it or not).

I don't sneer at people who have work friends, nor do I dislike my colleagues - my team mates are lovely, I just don't do work socialising: that says nothing about either me or them as being "bad" people.

I totally agree with you op. Wfh can have some plus sides for some people but, believe me, it gets tedious and lonely after a while. And I also agree it's terrible to be cooped up in the house, rarely straying out of your immediate neighbourhood.

all the money they love saving on travel, clothes, lunches, even the demise of the dreaded Christmas party, is other people's jobs.
But people end up spending that money elsewhere, creating jobs locally, or moving the wealth to a different sector. Perhaps people aren’t buying work clothes so much, but they’re buying leisurewear and comfy WFH clothing. Eye makeup sales are up because of video calls (lipstick sales are down because of masks). The DIY, home improvements and garden sectors are booming – what people are saving on one element of life they’re spending on another. You can’t force an entire country back into a needless rush hour and hours wasted on commutes just so Pret turns a profit. Besides if the WFH revolution truly takes hold, businesses that supply workers will just move location – more local cafes, hot desk hubs in residential areas, etc.

One part of our team is already offshore and it causes huge problems in terms of time zone, language and efficiency – you can’t offshore absolutely everybody, and not every job will be. I agree there’ll be a shift towards that, but I also think that shift will later be corrected when businesses realise the downsides. If you need something at 5pm and can’t get it because everyone offshore has clocked off, it’s 10pm there, you’re screwed.

I’d love to see businesses being truly flexible about it, on an individual level – this thread shows that full-time WFH works for some, full-time in the office for others, a mix works for others. But forcing everyone back into the office because some people want to works for no one, in the end; and ditto forcing everyone to WFH, even those that don’t want to, won’t work.

FWIW re L&D I started my new job during lockdown, haven’t been to the office once, and have learned a million new programs from home both informally and through formal training. It’s perfectly possible to deliver training remotely if you want to.

And I also agree it's terrible to be cooped up in the house, rarely straying out of your immediate neighbourhood.

People are saying those who want to go into the office are being sneered at, but the picture that's being painted of those who want to WFH is appalling. What makes you think people are cooped up? Unless you work 24/7 you can leave your house and your neighbourhood outside working hours whenever you want. What do people think happens in offices? Spending the day in the office is hardly exploring exciting unseen terrain.OK you might travel there but a daily commute quickly becomes monotonous.

WFH gives me more freedoms and opportunities- not less.

One of my previous jobs was working in an underground laboratory.
I worked 8.30 until 5pm. Lunch was taken in the staff room.
During the winter months I wouldn't see daylight for 5 days at a time.
I don't see that as "getting out".
By contast working from home gives me the opportunity to have lunch in the garden, to visit the gym several times a week, to pop to the shops, to go for a walk in the forest or to the river.
My life is more open because I WFH, not less.

Thank I totally agree but financially it works for me and our family. I will be looking at returning to the office on a part time basis when we go back. I am in civil service and we won't be back full time for some time yet and my manager has said he is more than happy for me to spend as much or little time in the office as I like.

I like WFH but I need to get back as I started a week before the office ‘disbanded’ so I’ve not been trained as effectively as I would have.

I don’t agree with your reasoning at all though

- Getting out of the house, personally I dont think its healthy to spend all (most) of your time within the same 4 walls.
You can go for a walk during the day, in the office you spend 8 hours a day within the same 4 walls. I go for a walk the moment I close my computer at 5pm.

- The social aspect of working. Alot of people make friends or at least acquaintances through work.
I don’t need Friends via work as I got bullied by people I thought I trusted before. WFH has given me a bit of distance to work out what people are like before opening up as I’m too trusting. We keep in touch on WhatsApp and messenger though.

- I know alot of people who met their partner through work. And alot who just had fun casual hook ups with co-workers. Either way there will be less chances at romance because you will have less social interaction.
Been there, got the t shirt and it’s actually really bad to date people you work neither. All kinds of awkwardness there.bliterally everyone I know has not met there partner via work so it would make no difference.

- As a mother I find going out to work gives me a life outside of being mammy. It gives me a little independence for myself. If I was working from home all of the time I would never be away from the children. Never get a break.
Now they can go back to school/nursery people will get that break and also you could get a hobby!

- No after work drinks, office xmas parties etc.
Thank Christ for that!!! I hate having to socialise with work.

- I've also read some threads on here about couples fighting because one or both of them is working from home and there getting on each others nerves. Couples need time apart.
We work in separate rooms, take separate breaks, go for a solo walk each and haven’t fought at all over lockdown.

Also I’ve saved £3k and husband had saved £4k

I set up working from home as a lawyer in 1994 but I kept on all my committees and 50 speaking engagements a year all over the world, meetings etc so it was not quite just inside one place all day. I did about a year ago stop a lot of meetings and all the conferences so in a sense began a kind of lockdown then as that suits me at this stage of my life (50s) but I know it does not suit everyone. Also I only started working from home when all 3 older children were at full time school so I had the house entirely to myself - that worked well and in school holidays I locked my home office door so they couldn't come in.

My daughter is hoping her office will open soon (and her boyfriend was the first person back when his reopened) and the other daughter I think is about to go back into hers.

and believe me when I say that it is not all that great. It does not always work and the 'savings' come at a cost. Paying someone less to take 5 times longer to do something is not cheaper

I agree. Outsourcing wouldn’t work in the team I work with at work

It is so smug when people say they are just fine at home. Presumably they at some point socialised, met a partner, went out . And, of course, they were actually able to apply for and start jobs, unlike current young people who are watching all the Smuggery Smugs hauling up the ladder and waving from their home offices
Over and over again through the years on MN I have seen posters calling other people saddos for hoping to make friends at the school gate, or wanting a chat at work. “I already have friends” they post; obviously having met friends and partner as a foetus. And on this thread there are those sneering at anyone who actually might welcome going into a workplace, and not recognising that not everyone is a self-satisfied 40-something.

I so agree with these points. I think most posters who are happy to WFH just don’t want or need to meet people because they are secure with where they are in life, live near their families, or they are unlucky enough to work with some toxic people.

I live hundreds of miles away from where I went to school and grew up, and nowhere near family. I have made friends through work, toddler group, school and church. How else am I going to do this?

I'm liking it more than i thought i would. My personal gripe is feeling responsible for issues that I can't do anything about, such as quality of equipment and reliance on imperfect internet connections.

We've set up a series of informal WhatsApp groups to share ideas and have a moan. That's been a lifesaver. .

The main thing I've missed is the softer side of office life - the interaction with others and bouncing ideas around.

I agree with the poster who said that it's more difficult to learn when you're effectively isolated at home. We get interminable links to information but no time to think critically or absorb information in anything but a very shallow way.

@ittooshallpass no, you absolutely cannot knowledge share remotely in the same way, or in anywhere near as effective a way in the industry I'm in.

We're already starting to see that new recruits, who'd normally shadow experienced colleagues in the field, are taking far longer than usual to become operational. We're able to accommodate this for now, but it's already impacting our stance on recruitment.

It will not take most companies long to cotton on that if they move to a remote operation they will be able to employ someone overseas for a fraction of someone working from home in a London suburb.

I just started a new PT job in financial services and I cannot tell you how relieved I was to find that the office was fully open. Four months of lockdown looking after a toddler full-time, with no social interaction except DH, was really hard.

@Ginfordinner entirely agree! I often wonder if all of these posters are like sil, who at almost 50, still socialises almost exclusively with her school friends and lives streets away from most family. She's lovely but her life is so different from mine having moved the length of the country several times.

For anyone who moves as an adult, school and work are the key places you meet people. Perhaps I'm lucky but work is also the place where I've met people with whom I've had most in common!

When we were office based I used to often come across people from other departments in kitchen areas or the canteen, and pass the time of day with them. Working in teams on Team you never get to come across people from other departments. So, in effect, unless departments are linked in some way, each team is isolated from each other.

when I can pay a quarter of that by outsourcing and getting the same result.

You don’t get the same result. Some companies are already bringing things back. Call centres in Asia have been a disaster for some customer service. People don’t like it.

think most posters who are happy to WFH just don’t want or need to meet people because they are secure with where they are in life, live near their families, or they are unlucky enough to work with some toxic people.

I live hundreds of miles away from where I went to school and grew up, and nowhere near family. I have made friends through work, toddler group, school and church. How else am I going to do this?

I think you are missing the point slightly. Not everyone wants a social life - I accept that some people do, and that's fine. I too live hundreds of miles from my family and the town I grew up in. I don't have children so I have no 'mum' friends. I don't really socialise with anyone except my husband - and I'm perfectly happy like that

The people I work with are not toxic at all, it's just that we don't really have anything in common other than work. We have a 'Teams' chat continuously open while WFH but my colleagues mainly seem to talk about what they're watching on paid-for TV, Netflix etc. and I only have Freeview so it's not of interest to me.

I accept that some people enjoy office life, banter, flirting, gossip etc. but that's not me. It will be a good thing if people who've had to tolerate all that stuff for decades and are now breathing a sigh of relief can continue to WFH.

If people WFH in the UK, they can WFH in other countries, reducing salary costs for UK employers.

5It will not take most companies long to cotton on that if they move to a remote operation they will be able to employ someone overseas for a fraction of someone working from home in a London suburb.*

Not if the job requires knowledge of U.K. culture, networking, U.K. qualifications, law, health, care, etc. Also I doubt companies are going to want their staff line managed by someone with no connection at all.