Wealthy people living in Housing Association houses?

[Bookofdead]

Before I start, can I just say I am absolutely NOT making a dig at anyone that lives in HA properties. This thread is for information purposes for a relative of mine.

I have a relative who retired a few years ago and was struggling to make ends meat. She wanted to be able to give her DC some money for a house deposit and free up some equity to live on as she was struggling on her pension. She sold her house and bought another but in a not very nice area and one which was an hour away from family (it was the best she could afford) After 2 years, her car being vandalised and and house being broken into, she wanted to be in a nicer area but couldn’t afford to do so in the county she was in. As such, she made the decision to move 300 miles away from all her family to the other side of England where property was more affordable and she could get a small house in a nice, safe village. This was 2.5 years ago now and she came back for a visit last month, I think COVID has hit her hard in terms of she was isolated, alone in her house for months whereas she used to come back here for visits and to see her family every 6 weeks or so.

I’ll cut to the chase, I really miss her, her children really miss her but none of us are in a position to offer her a home with us at the moment. Now this isn’t 1st world problems, she’s got a house and is safe, roof over her head etc I know. My issue is...

I have often thought ‘I wonder if she could apply for a HA house around here.’ There are some really nice ones in nice villages all around us. I thought no, she really doesn’t have a lot of money but ultimately she’s probably got about £100k in her house so she DOES have a house and an asset so wouldn’t be eligible.

I have a horse and years ago used to keep it at a yard with another lady who had a very expensive horse, a nice lorry, a good job etc yet she had a HA house?

Yesterday I was on FB and saw a post on a local village community page from ANOTHER lady I used to keep horses with asking if anyone wanted to swap houses? It was clear from the post that she meant HA houses. This lady has 2 horses, a new trailer and 4x4, multiple foreign holidays a year and her husband runs his own successful business.

Now I’m sat here thinking, hang on, what is the criteria for HA housing then and would my relative be entitled? Don’t get me wrong, I like both of the above mentioned women, but It just seems wrong that they lead relatively affluent lifestyles and can get a HA around here in nice villages, close to their family and friends yet someone like my aunt has had to move 300 miles away to the other side of the country away from everyone she knows in her older age in order to be in an area that she feels safe? (This isn’t anyone else’s problem I know and like i said above, it’s not a 1st world problem at all but I am now starting to think I’ve had this all wrong and you don’t have to be on the bare bones or your arse to get a HA house?)

Warms the cockles of me heart it does
Yy I feel quite nostalgic

HAs have different criteria. There's absolutely no point asking on MN about your local HA. No-one here will know. Your aunt would be better buying a flat in a sheltered housing complex.

To have a HA property doesn't mean you can't have a good job, horse, holidays, etc. It depends on your circumstances at the time of applying to the LA and through the process of securing the property. After that your rent is subsidised much like a LA property and there is no legislation advising you must leave when your circumstances change and even now there is the prospect of Right to Buy and other buying schemes for HA properties available. Whether there should be legislation for people to purchase or leave when their circumstances drastically change for the better is a matter for debate and not necessarily for this thread.

There is a different type of renting to the low rents you get if you are placed through a LA waiting list, which is usually closer to market rate but a little lower. Sometimes this is to allow for people to purchase but sometimes just for the HA's continuous revenue. It totally different per HA, per part of the UK. For example, there are different stipulations on the percentage split between people to be housed through the LA waiting list, below market rent (both LA and this other type of rent being being considered "affordable") and Shared Ownership for newly built properties in London.

Unfortunately, your relative has made their life decisions and it's unreasonable judging other's circumstances due to the fact your relative can't have something. If your relative sold any properties they own, they would then be eligible to buy through Shared Ownership. Although, I personally think Shared Ownership is a con, due to the fact you pay a mortgage and rent to be responsible for everything it terms of repairs or usually after 2 years of a defects process if it's newly built. The only way you're rid of that is if you can staircase to full ownership, which you aren't always able to do.

Your relative would need to ask around if they want to consider this route.

there is no legislation advising you must leave when your circumstances change

That's the problem and it's about time it was changed. There should be something like a 5 year review to check that occupants still meet the criteria. I'd suggest "renewal criteria" isn't as strict as original criteria, so that people aren't forced out for modest improvements in their circumstances, but it should identify those who have benefitted from major improvements (promotions, inheritances, new partners, etc) and would be able to make their own arrangements in the housing market. There needs to be some kind of system to stop "house blocking" by those who don't need support.

@OnePotato2Potato

This is genuinely news to me... that you can pay cheap rent for life even after your circumstances have changed and income has gone up. I mean WTF? Who came up with such a shitty system? Public taxes gone on people who can afford to pay higher rents but the system allows them to continue living on cheap rent. And people who actually need them, low income families are deprived of it.

@Noneformethanks
Was that deliberately goady? Err... you feel that you are ENTITLED to low rent even after your income has gone up, have you no self respect?

Public taxes are not spent on council houses. The rent covers the costs. Also new tenancy agreements are usually on a 5 year review and not for life.

In my area, you have to have been resident in the borough for I think 3 years to even get on the council list. I think the average wait to get a house or flat is currently 15 years.

Housing association is different and the rents are usually in line with private costs.

A one bed flat here costs £220 per week in a HA property.

The trouble is not that council house rents are too low, it's that private rent is too high.

@Bookofdead

My relative has just turned 70.

I guess im worried as she’s getting older and is 300 miles away from any of her family And wouldn’t have any help if she needed it. Yes that’s her doing, I do completely understand that, but it is worrying and knowing there are people who appear wealthy living in social housing I just thought I’d ask whether she may be eligible. I see the mumsnet vipers are out in force

I think you are being disingenuous.

You are a first time poster. Instead of simply,asking whether people with assets can apply for HA properties you wrote a long post detailing the wealthy people you know who have HA properties. Over embellishment is often the preserve of goady posters.

How do you know they are in HA properties?

Where I am, we have a mix of HA, private rent and owned.

Also our HA has a certain number of private rent, so while you might live in a property owned by them, you would be in a private rent not in a HA property

I don't think she has any chance of moving to a new area and getting a HA place especially as she already owns a property.

I think that quite a few people get HA places and then years down the line they are in a much better financial position. People who are dramatically more well off after for example starting a successful business should be expected to free up the property for someone else.

Could your relative consider a residential mobile home park? There are some really nice ones and in the more expensive parts of the country they can be an affordable option. Also can be quite sociable.

In our area one can only be offered HA property if they have savings of less than 60k, which is quite high imo but it's better than years ago when there didn't seem to be a limit on savings. In 2002 my my Mum lived in a lovely sheltered HA complex of about forty flats and six bungalows, a couple moved in to one of the two bed flats who had recently sold their five bed B&B business on a south coast resort 40 miles away to move nearer family in their retirement. They used to tell anyone who would listen how much money they got for their business and how they planned on spending it, they only regretted that they hadn't been allocated one of the two bed bungalows as they had private gardens.

That's an excellent idea @Sarahandco

My brother has a property on a Park Homes site - it's not for everyone but his property cost him around 1/3 of the cost of local houses; it's a site for over 50's so most residents are very elderly (he's only 55!) and there is a great sense of community there.

Upkeep costs are down to you, you own the property and there are a few caveats but otherwise it's great!

The problem your friend has is of her own making.

Whilst it is nice to give people money if you can’t afford to live yourself what did she think was going to happen?

I am presuming your friend didn’t write down her potential sale price of her home, minused off any bills, estate agent fees, solicitors fees, moving costs.
Then look at where she was comfortable going to live having done a lot of research on the area. Then put down how much her new place was going to cost her, E.g. buying price, stamp duty, more solicitors fees, and a contingency if the place needed decorating to her taste etc.

Your friend needs to look at the reality of her situation.
She needs to look at options within her Price range
Maybe a one bed garden flat in a nice block. Or go into rented until her money runs out then claim housing benefit.

Something similar happened to friends mother who sold her house and gave virtually all her money to one of her dc and now bemoans the fact that she used to have a huge house and now she is on benefits and in rented accommodation.

It's all very well saying kick people out if they earn x amount but it would be a disaster in practice. I am not a high earner but I do earn a good bit above minimum wage. If I had to move out of where I am (HA place), I'd be better off giving up my job and living on benefits and staying. That's the bottom line, and the same would be true for a lot of people. Only really high earners would carry on working and the percentage of those in SH is very small. I would never have gone for the job I have now if it meant risking my home to take it. I can't buy for numerous reasons (which I won't bore anyone with!) so my home is everything to me and any steps I needed to take to keep it, I would.

HA houses are available to anyone who pays the rent, regardless of how much money they have

No they're not! If an applicant has more than a certain amount of disposable income or savings they will not get on the housing list.

The people you know may have got their social housing some time ago and have got wealthy since then. This is the reason the government introduced fixed term tenancies to replace tenancies for life, so that people's situation's can be reviewed to ensure that people who can afford to rent privately or to buy are not in social housing to the detriment of those on the waiting lists.

@crowsfeet57

HA houses are available to anyone who pays the rent, regardless of how much money they have

No they're not! If an applicant has more than a certain amount of disposable income or savings they will not get on the housing list.

The people you know may have got their social housing some time ago and have got wealthy since then. This is the reason the government introduced fixed term tenancies to replace tenancies for life, so that people's situation's can be reviewed to ensure that people who can afford to rent privately or to buy are not in social housing to the detriment of those on the waiting lists.

That totally depends on your area. There's no income or savings limit to get on the waiting list round here.

In allocation they would be zero priority, but depending on the turnover, or building, locally they may get something eventually.

The HA here also have "mid market" properties that they offer to people who are looking for something secure on a want rather than need basis. They tend to be a little more expensive (though not ridiculous like some private ll's locally (I am a LL, we have a few locally absolutely taking the piss)), have things like an en-suite, bigger garden, garage etc. They are a good money maker for the HA as they guarantee that profit from those properties go into building new properties.

There's been a huge amount of building here in the last few years so there have been more than normal number of people being offered something they might not usually be (or who wouldn't be in different areas).

The 2 HA’s in our area have diff types of accom & demand for the criteria your relative would fall into is very low. My Mil did something similar although she’d already sold her house & owned a site based chalet. Applied & got the 2nd flat she saw, she could have had the 1st but wasn’t keen on the area. No restrictions on savings etc as long as can meet the rent & bills. Demand for family homes is much higher, although no restrictions on income the wait list is based on priority determined by circumstances.

With a good asset (a house) and some savings, she's be SOOO far down the waiting list, that she'd probably be long-dead before she got to the top.

Sorry.

Some local authorities might have different rules for over 55s accommodation . On right move I have seen houses for sale at a much reduced price for the over 60s , but it would mean sacrificing all or part of any inheritance for the family .

We have 'Alms Houses' locally. When they were built a couple of hundred years ago they were meant for the poor. They are sweet little places and a friends father who owns a 6 bed detached applied for one.... he got one! He is selling up and keeping money and will pay a peppercorn rent to live in a 2 bed sweet cottage... there is a waiting list and people in much more need so no idea how he managed that... it felt so 'grabby' and 'tacky' given that there are genuine poor who don't have his advantage financially.

There are some beautiful ones near us originally set up for ‘elderly single ladies of the parish’. I suspect these can now be open to all and are sellable.

yet someone like my aunt has had to move 300 miles away to the other side of the country away from everyone she knows in her older age in order to be in an area that she feels safe?

So there was nowhere within 300 miles that was "safe"? And yet if she were offered a HA property she would suddenly feel safe in one of the many closer areas that she had previously rejected?

A bigger issue in my rural village is the number of 3 bed HA properties occupied by single (older) people - I know of 3 in the next street without even having to think hard! These are people whose family have long since fled the nest and the occupant is either widowed or divorced. I also know of families living in 2 bed HA houses in my street who have 2 or 3 children and are desperate for a 3 bed. But the single people have a house for life.

But the single people have a house for life. And? That isn't the fault of the individual.

It's the result of successive government decisions about housing, plannning etc.

So many here focus on the people living their perfectly ordinary lives in their own homes, whether owned or rented. Many posters make multiple comments about Boomers, singletons, older people etc etc etc. Wrong focus!

Leave them to live their lives where they want, just as you will want to when you get to that point in your life. Focus on your local MP, LA, planning department etc etc and get involved in changing that!

She could not get benefits to pay her rent but she could rent a HA house if it was available to rent and no other people needed it ahead of her so it really depends on the area, some areas do have availability and others have queues of much higher priority cases.

@bigbluebus

A bigger issue in my rural village is the number of 3 bed HA properties occupied by single (older) people - I know of 3 in the next street without even having to think hard! These are people whose family have long since fled the nest and the occupant is either widowed or divorced. I also know of families living in 2 bed HA houses in my street who have 2 or 3 children and are desperate for a 3 bed. But the single people have a house for life.

There are very few 1 bed places available to move too even if they want to move

The HA here built 37 one bed places in their last build and the could have let them out 5 times over

My husband part owned his property with a housing association. It was the only way he could get on the housing ladder.

Look into it, it could be a good move for you aunt.

If he hadn't met me he would have been there alot longer also. He was on a decent wage, he had to be to get the mortgage for his % and pay the HA rent.