Rent arrears

[Pixxie7]

According to news night there are thousands of people who have fallen behind with their rent. Whilst I appreciate some are genuine I can’t see how anyone on benefits or on a pension can have been that badly affected. Similarly with people furloughed.
So my question is are a lot taking advantage of a bad situation.?

I can’t see how anyone on benefits or on a pension can have been that badly affected.

I have not said that it is people on benefits, the only reason I mentioned them was as example of people who could potentially get in arrears

Which of those 2 statements are true?

I'm in an NHS team. Two of my team were doing bank hours to top up hours pre covid and one of them has a husband that was newly self employed. So he hasn't had any money, her wage has reduced by about 30%. She is very worried about finances. So I'm imagining a lot of people may be affected, as two of my team of 9 have been affected, and they are key workers.

Yes living costs have gone up but that’s the same for everyone

It's not the same for everyone though is it... because some people can afford it and others can't.

And people on furlough have been getting 80% (sometimes even less) than their wage. That's 20% of their income missing. Of course it was going to have an impact on what certain people could pay.

Some people got no help at all
My friend had his hours significantly cut and although he worked throughout wasnt. eligible for help
Has rent arrears. The landlord isn’t going through courts to evict but is selling up as that’s easier for him now the government have removed stamp duty

Millions are probably in a similar situation

However as stated by a pp from personal experience there are people taking the piss

There are always people who take the piss. There are companies who have taken the piss with the furlough scheme, there are people who take the piss with the benefits they claim, there are people who have taken the piss not wearing masks when they should etc etc etc.... It's a fact of life that some people will take the piss.

But saying you don't understand why anyone on benefits, pension or furlough may fall behind with rent is a bit daft. It's fairly obvious why.

I was furloughed and our living expenses increased from me and children being home all the time. We are fortunate that we were able to absorb those costs and not fall behind due to DH still working. If he'd also have been furloughed (he's SE but for arguments sake), been made redundant, lost hours or work, we'd have been in a really tricky situation.

It's not hard to see how things might affect other people even if they haven't directly affected you. I'm not too blinkered to realise other people are in a different situation to me.

I think it could have been very easy to fall into arrears over the last few months. I know people that make their basic wages up with overtime who were furloughed and suddenly in a mess. I noticed my normal grocery online shopping got more expensive in April, there was times that I couldn't get a delivery and had to use a local and expensive farm shop, I've used more electric working from home and keeping the DC entertained. There's countless different ways that living costs have gone up since March while, for a lot of families, income has gone down.

And with your vast personal experience @Pixxie7 what cross section of the population have you found to be taking the piss? Of those, how many are pensioners, people claiming benefits? How many have had a pay cut in excess of 20% of their salary?

OP you might want to read some of the LL and tenant threads on Facebook which are eye opening.

I think the thousands referred to on the news will mostly consist of genuine cases who have some rent arrears but are trying to pay it back or are at least in communication with their LL.

The remainder will be a small % of pisstakers like the example given above who just haven't paid rent for months on end, not even a fiver as a measure of goodwill and are almost impossible to get hold of. These cases never turn out well and right now with the courts having been closed for months and the backlog that has built up, evictions could be delayed well into next year.

The result? Many LLs will be repossessed and those houses may come out of the rental sector altogether unless another LL buys the .

One other point to note which the news coverage always fails to address is that most evictions (using S21) come from the social housing sector, not the PRS. The vilification of private LLs is extreme right now from all sides for political reasons.

People furloughed did not received 80% of earnings! People on dividends received a tiny fraction of what they would have normally got, and I mean going from approx £2,400 to £535 a month. Not all furlough is as straight forward as it appears!

There are many reasons why someone can go into arrears.
So people live hand to mouth so a 20% drop in wages is a lot.
Some people work cash in hand and the industries who usually pay like this probably wouldn’t have been running (so a complete cut in income)
Some people rely on overtime to top up wages but as most places were closed or furloughing staff then over time wouldn’t have been accessible.
Redundancies have happened already.
The cost of having kids at home full time would have made the food bill go up Along with utility bills of having a house occupied all day.
I don’t think that every small business were eligible for the government grant and I’m not sure what self employed have been given in terms of help.

The virus has been affecting people from all walks of life but the fall out from this will effect the poorest and most vulnerable in our society and you seem quite judgy towards those who have suffered during the pandemic and are now facing the reality that they can be evicted. I doubt many people were pissing their money up the wall instead of paying rent

I was made redundant almost straight away, husband furloughed. Straight away found ourselves in dire straights as we'd used our savings up having to go private for mental health treatment for our child as camhs is almost non existent in our area. Universal credits took 2 whole months to get paid after a mistake on their end. Cost of living went straight up. Kids home all day using more power, eating more. So yeah the rent unfortunately was late. I've had to borrow. It's been extremely hard.

I'm glad your life's all great and this isn't something you've had to worry yourself about.

@Pixxie7

I have not said that it is people on benefits, the only reason I mentioned them was as example of people who could potentially get in arrears. I have all the empathy in the world for people who are struggling. However as stated by a pp from personal experience there are people taking the piss.

Yes, there are people taking the piss. There will always be people cheating the system. Whatever system it is.

Is that your only point? Genuinely. I voted YABU, but I was wrong. YANBU because you're right. It's a pointless divisive thread, though.

There was a reason why the government introduced the no eviction thing.....because even this most heartless cruel government could see people would struggle.

Honestly if Boris Johnson's government has more understanding of poverty than you....words fail me.

I'm a single parent, work part time. I was living in a rented flat during lockdown, I get working tax credits and got a small amount of housing benefit. My housing benefit increased by £20 a week as did my tax credits due to Covid so that covered what I was losing on furlough. My food bill did go up as DS normally got a free school meal as do all Year 2 children but I'm not entitled to FSM as I work too many hours. So I was buying a lot more food.

My rent is less than the local housing benefit cap but I was extremely lucky in that sense as I've not seen any other properties in my local area with such a low rent. If someone in a private rental suddenly lost their job and housing benefit wasn't enough to cover their rent it's easy to see how they would struggle.

And it's all very well and good saying 'rent has to be paid' but it requires money to pay it.

You could say the exact same thing about landlords, 'their mortgage has to be paid'.

Well yes obviously, but if someone is receiving less money and but higher expenses, there are going to be shortfalls from both some tenants toward their rent and some landlords toward their mortgages.

@Pixxie7

I am just making an assumption that given the help provided by the government plus the fact that a lot of people’s income hasn’t really changed, I am surprised so many are in arrears.

I think it might have been better to approach this with a genuine question rather than a (pretty entitled) assumption. All of your posts on this have shown a lack of understanding on the issues that have affected many people during the lockdown.

I'm not going to address all of your poor assumptions, but I will point out that many people have seen their earnings go below minimum wage due to furlough. 80% of minimum wage is obviously 20% below minimum wage. Not that hard to see how families would struggle.

Also, if you've lived in poverty, you will know rent is not the number one priority. Food is a priority. Electric and gas is a priority. Transport to and from work/school/college is a priority.

@Pixxie7

All the points made are valid and I repeat their are many genuine cases, however there are also people who have taken advantage of the Covid crises.

How is it 'taking advantage'?

They still owe the money and have to pay it back

So basically you admit you're wrong op? Your opening post stated that SOME are genuine and wondered whether A LOT are taking advantage. You are now retracting that, yes? You now say SOME are taking advantage?

Not very nice to assume that people who are struggling are taking the piss is it? You got the hump at being called 'ignorant', imagine (if you're capable of it) how someone would feel if they were struggling and behind with the rent and read your op?

@chocforthewin I hear you but would say that people getting income via dividends likely paid less tax than the average Joe in previous years and this is the payback for that. That won't make it any easier to get by though and maybe the reduced payout does not balance with the benefit people got in past years by paying out in dividends rather than salary.

From what my tenant was saying the income calculation he got off the govt furlough scheme was low - I assume that will be because he's been doing cash in hand work and not declaring all income. Again, this is the payback.

I think there will be lots of people who have a severe income drop, e.g. zero hours contract part time workers who are students, they got nothing when their bar jobs disappeared overnight, my neighbour, who started her business only last year, nothing for her on the furlough scheme.

But in answer to the OPs question - are some taking advantage, I say yes, but plenty are struggling and businesses are going to the wall. Despite my tenancy troubles I know I'm lucky to have a solid job and some savings to fall back on for now.

I think it's the difference between "we're all in the same boat" and "we're all on the same sea, but some of us are in leaky dinghies and others are in yachts".

20% salary cut
Drop off in self-employed work (trades, cleaners, theatre/creative work)
Delay in UC applications
People falling through the cracks between various schemes (such as recently self-employed)
Food scarcity = higher prices (esp. in the early days)
At home more = bills higher
Loss of FSM

And that's coming from a landlord who has seen her family's finances improve since Covid-19 (lower costs, uptick in work).

There are always pisstaking tenants, sure, but I can totally see how an average family would've been hit hard by this.

foamrolling@ you really are a piece of works. I don’t like rude people, calling someone ignorant implies that they are lacking in knowledge uneducated. I expressed an opinion nothing more nothing less.

For families, the benefit cap is a killer. The maximum they can get is £384.62 a week. In this area (not London), a 3-bed house is likely to cost well in excess of £1,500 a month. The only 3-bed houses on Rightmove at the moment are £1,750 and £1,900. They don't even get Rishi Sunak's extra £20 a week.

You don't need to be a genius to work out that, if you end up on benefits, you can pay your rent OR feed your family. You can't do both.

OP, if you can work out a budget that enables a family of 4 on £384.62 pw to pay a rent of £346 a week (£1,500 a month) and live on what's left, I'd love to see it. It'd be no end of help to my clients.

Even single people who have one-bed flats at the lowest rents, which are covered in full by the local housing allowance, are benefit capped in much of the county where I live.

@Pixxie7

foamrolling@ you really are a piece of works. I don’t like rude people, calling someone ignorant implies that they are lacking in knowledge uneducated. I expressed an opinion nothing more nothing less.

But your opinion, namely

can’t see how anyone on benefits or on a pension can have been that badly affected. Similarly with people furloughed

Is ignorant. How can you not see how anyone on benefits, pension or furlough could be 'that badly affected'. It is incredibly obvious why.

But you see how your opinion could be hurtful though? Would you not be hurt if you were in the position of being unable to pay your rent and you read a post implying that you were probably taking advantage?

How am I a piece of work for pointing out that impact your opinion can have on others feelings?

You sure seem to get hurt and upset by others expressing their opinions.