To ask if you encouraged reading/writing before school

[palmsandwine]

Hi all just looking for some perspective.

I moved to Australia 2 years ago. I lost my job due to covid and have taken up a nanny position covering maternity leave. I haven't worked in childcare for almost 7 years so I'm wondering if I'm a little out of touch or if the Aussie education system is just very different.

I'm nanny for a 3 year old girl and a 5.5 year old boy. He'll be 6 at the end of January which is around the same time as he will be starting prep (reception). At the moment he goes to kinder 3 days a week. They don't learn any reading/ writing etc.

I was surprised to find that my host parents aren't encouraging any reading or writing with him yet. He isn't able to write his 4 letter name and can't recite the alphabet. Now I'm not in any way judging I understand perhaps his parents just want to wait until school starts before pushing all of this onto him. Perhaps let him hold onto his little years as much as possible before "academics" start.
The only thing I've noticed though is that some of his friends seem to already be reading pretty well. In the 2 months I've been with the family I've supervised 4 play dates. Each with a different friend. And each friend showed signs of reading. Whether it be something off the tv, in a book, one kid heard my phone beep and called out "Jack texted you!"
B5.5 has mentioned this to me a couple of times "why can friend read" "did you know that friend can write his whole name" etc.

My host mum almost seems anti the idea of it as when I suggested doing some phonogram apps with him she very quickly shut down the idea. She also was quite judgemental when a family friend dropped over some brownies and a note written by their 4 year old. Just a few words something like "enjoy the brownies! Love ** -- xx" my host dad commented on how good her writing was and host mum said something like "hmm.. not sure why they got her to write it though." It just seemed very "off" like she was judging her friends for teaching their child to write.

But it all just has me curious now because I'm sure my mum was doing dot-to-dots for my name from around 3 on cards. I'm sure I remember by the time we started primary age 4/5 everyone was writing their name at least. Or is that wrong?

As I say I completely understand parents not wanting to push too much onto their child too young but by 5.5 I do think a little more should be encouraged but I'm anxious to do anything with him for fear of his mum not approving. She's happy for him to just wait until he's 6 at school. They spend crazy amounts of money for his kinder, and yet they're not even learning the alphabet. I can't help but feel a bit frustrated by it all, on B5s behalf. Starting school and being a step behind is definitely not going to be fun or easy for him especially as he's very aware that he's the oldest in his class. Am I awful for thinking that by 6, a child should have been taught the alphabet at least?

Is there no sort of curriculum at his kindy? It does sound like he’s being left behind but if mum says no it makes it hard for you. Can you introduce this type of learning in a casual way by singing songs or something?

Can’t believe he doesn’t know his alphabet already through something like that. Do his parents know that he’s commenting on his friends ability? If not I think that’s where I’d start with them, maybe lay it on a bit thick and see if they’ll let you teach him?

I imagine not everyone will like this answer but here we go

By 6 I absolutely think parents should have started the basics. For no other reason than, as you say, he’s going to have a complex by the time he starts school. You really have no idea how much other parents are doing with their children and at what age they started. Why wouldn’t you want them to at least have a little head start?? There are definitely some parents who are incredibly competitive and love showing off about how well their 2 year old can already read. But this isn’t about that. Just teaching your child at least the very basic phonograms is setting them up to feel confident once lessons start. He’s already noticing his friends are a step ahead so by the time he actually starts school in January, there will be an even bigger difference in ability.
I cannot understand your host mum’s point of view on this to be honest. Perhaps she didn’t start anything until she was 6 and did fine so assumed her DS will be the same. I don’t know much about the Aussie school system but hopefully they’ll not have expected the parents to have started on anything and will start completely from scratch otherwise this little boy’s confidence will be shot to pieces especially if he’s very aware he’s the oldest in the class.

You aren’t awful for worrying but neither is the mother for holding off until he starts school. I am sure you both have his best interests at heart. I’m an early years teacher in the Uk but have also worked overseas where children start school at 6 and 7. In the early years play is so important to build up the characteristics of learning. In both settings there will be children entering with a huge range of skills. Children learn very quickly and if school entry is at 6yo he will be given every chance to become a fluent reader then.
Follow the child’s lead. If he asks what a certain letter of word says as part of his play model it for him, but don’t go over the mothers head and start formally teaching him. Read to him plenty, fill his head with Wonderful words and stories. Follow the text with your finger as you read. Play alliteration and rhyme games, sing songs counting up and down. Point out his initial letter when you go for walks. He’ll be taking it all in in preparation for successful learning which aligns with his mother’s beliefs.

@IHateCoronavirus

You aren’t awful for worrying but neither is the mother for holding off until he starts school. I am sure you both have his best interests at heart. I’m an early years teacher in the Uk but have also worked overseas where children start school at 6 and 7. In the early years play is so important to build up the characteristics of learning. In both settings there will be children entering with a huge range of skills. Children learn very quickly and if school entry is at 6yo he will be given every chance to become a fluent reader then. Follow the child’s lead. If he asks what a certain letter of word says as part of his play model it for him, but don’t go over the mothers head and start formally teaching him. Read to him plenty, fill his head with Wonderful words and stories. Follow the text with your finger as you read. Play alliteration and rhyme games, sing songs counting up and down. Point out his initial letter when you go for walks. He’ll be taking it all in in preparation for successful learning which aligns with his mother’s beliefs.

Good advice thank you!

In truth I'm still not clear as to what age is the norm to start school. Because his birthday is so close to the start of the academic year, they chose for him to start age 6 and be the oldest rather than 5 and the youngest. But I also know plenty of 4 year olds who are in school 5 days a week, so it must very depending on the school.

I suppose I just need to completely eradicate the ideas of what I'd do as a parent and what I'd ideally like to be doing as his nanny. Ultimately it's really not my business. I'd just love for him to have a bit of a kick start as he's a very shy and anxious child and I can't imagine being the type to put up his hand and ask for help if he needs it. But I do appreciate I need to respect what his mum wants.

He is only 5! I have 3DC, the eldest was early with her fine motor skills, loved drawing and wrote me a mother's day card when she was newly three. The youngest is a September baby, oldest in his class and first showed an interest in picking up a pencil about a month before he started school. Same parents, same nursery, but different children. His kinder may well be teaching him things but he's not interested yet.

Do lots of fine motor skills games with him to develop the skills for writing: drawing, colouring, lego, jigsaws, playdough, crafts etc. Read to him lots and play things like I Spy or The Minister's Cat or rhyming games so he starts thinking about the sounds in words. Play simple board games with him. I'm with his mother, there's lots to be learnt through play that will give a stronger head start than teaching a child to recite the alphabet without understanding.

Oh, and my slowest reader is now at secondary and is my most enthusiastic reader.

No. I think learning through play is more important at that age and to be honest I think children in the UK start school too early.

I wouldn't worry about it.

If you were the parent asking whether they should start teaching letters, I'd say yes. As you're the employee, I would say don't worry because the children catch up very quickly once they start school. By the end of the first year, you often can't tell who the early readers were.

The important thing is, what's he doing in place of that learning to read? Is he on a tablet constantly or is he playing and learning totally different skills?

Encouraged it yes, pushed it no. If I'd had someone like you around then I might have asked you try and teach some, but I didn't. It hasn't held my child back.
She was read to every night until she wanted to read by herself.

My mum, Frobel trained, tried teaching us to read before we went to school and was disappointed that we showed no interest. We picked it up quickly at school. Mum practically taught herself to read before school age and assumed we'd be the same.

There are theories that if you leave it later children learn it more quickly and easily.

Presumably the children are read to?

Maybe it would be helpful to read a bit around starting later. I have friends who home schooled and did later. Also Steiner schools do it later than mainstream schools.

Are they Steiner ? I ask because they actively discourage formal learning before 7, even if a child is interested. It may explain why he seems interested but has no input.

Ds is 4 and nursery did the basics with him but hes blossomed at home. I think some of it is memory but he's definitely using phonics now to spell out words. Writing is not as confident but it will come. To be honest we follow his lead and if he brings a book to read will work through it with him

Dont worry about it. I have lots of aussie friends as they start later they dont worry to much as it yet. At 6 it's not a problem. They're children are "behind" mine but same age. They all even out. Dont compare english and Australian system. Very different.

My kids were starting to read and write at 3, I thought this was normal. Dd2 managed to learn the alphabet, numbers and to write her name by 4.5 when she started school (this was partly at home and also at preschool) dd1 didn't start school until 5.5 due to living overseas but could read chapter books when she started. I followed the early years curriculum for the U.K. from age 3 and allowed her to progress at the pace she wanted, we used the Oxford reading tree books plus whatever I could download. 5.5 and not writing his name would be cause for concern in the U.K.

My older brother tried to teach me handwriting when I was about 3 or 4. I remember being very annoyed and just wanting to play.

I have a postgraduate degree in English now...

My eldest did no reading or writing before starting school and was a pretty fluent reader by the end of the first year, he has a minor disability so finds writing hard but he can do it with no help from me.

I'm from a country that starts school at 6, some kids are interested and start to read a bit/write at 4 or usually 5, some have no interest 'til they start school at 6. It doesn't seem to make a difference.

Some parents don't want to teach before hand because they are worried about for e.g. getting the phonics sounds wrong, or teaching the letters 'normally' when they might start with cursive at school.
There's also a fear of putting non-interested children off by starting too early.

There are lots of pre-reading (looking at books, using story cubes etc) and pre-writing (eg, fine motor skills, painting, play dough for hand strength) activities you can do with your nannying children to help them without annoying the DM.

My DD is 6 in November. Can't write her name. Can't blend or segment even simple CVC words. Can't form letters properly. School aren't overly worried, neither am I. For now we will all enjoy sharing stories together and she will catch up. Better than putting them off.

There are parents who believe that children shouldn’t be “taught” until 6 or 7, which makes zero sense. Children are like sponges and their capacity to learn is huge. I don’t think they need formal schooling though, but that is different to “learning”. My daughter is a summer child and started school at 4. I considered holding her back as I didn’t think she was emotionally ready, but she was already tracing letters and writing words without having had any formal tuition. She loved playing “schools“ with her sister and couldn’t wait to start. She was a free-reader by midway through year 1, aged 5. I think if they are showing an interest in learning then the parents should feed that need. It doesn’t have to be formal schooling, but I have seen people in groups for summerborn kids saying “I don’t want my child to learn to read until they are 5 or 6”...but I have no idea why they think it might be damaging, especially if their child wants to read. It’s a different story if a child isn’t interested and is forced to learn.

@Piixxiiee

Dont worry about it. I have lots of aussie friends as they start later they dont worry to much as it yet. At 6 it's not a problem. They're children are "behind" mine but same age. They all even out. Dont compare english and Australian system. Very different.

Thanks! I do try not to compare generally. There's other areas that seem very different. I suppose what worries me for B5 is that a lot of his friends seem to be doing so much already. If all the kids were starting from scratch at the start of Prep then I'd not give it a second thought but it's the fact that he's already picking up on the fact that his friends are already learning. I just worry for a child who is already very quiet and anxious, that his confidence will take a big dip once he gets to school and feels "behind"

@SenorPeabodyEsq

I wouldn't worry about it.

If you were the parent asking whether they should start teaching letters, I'd say yes. As you're the employee, I would say don't worry because the children catch up very quickly once they start school. By the end of the first year, you often can't tell who the early readers were.

The important thing is, what's he doing in place of that learning to read? Is he on a tablet constantly or is he playing and learning totally different skills?

Parents are fairly strict on screen time. Tablet or tv is used for about an hour a day max.

He spends the majority of his time playing with Lego's. If he's not doing that then it's cars/trucks/ hot wheels. He's not interested in arts and crafts or creative things. His 3 year old sister is the total opposite all she ever wants me to do is read to her and do crafts but b5 is very happy just playing alone with his things.

I've known parents who want the school to teach them because they feel it's best if they learn via the most approved method instead of learning some stuff before school that might actually end up slowing the learning method down because it was different.

If the child shows interest I struggle to understand any reason to withhold teaching. OP you said the boy asked why can his friend read and he can’t. That is a sign he is interested in it already. It’s one thing not pushing a child but purposely not educating them on something until an arbitrary deadline eg turning 6 makes no sense to me.

Our school told us not to do much as it was harder for them to unteach when they’d learnt different methods for reading and writing.

There is so much learning you can do that isn’t formal reading and writing though.

@turnitonagain

If the child shows interest I struggle to understand any reason to withhold teaching. OP you said the boy asked why can his friend read and he can’t. That is a sign he is interested in it already. It’s one thing not pushing a child but purposely not educating them on something until an arbitrary deadline eg turning 6 makes no sense to me.

I agree. He's definitely showing an interest. There were happy birthday balloons in the living room for a while. The individual letter ones. G3 immediately spotted the balloon that that her name starts with. B5's first initial isn't in "happy birthday" but he be pointed to H in happy and said "that's my schools letter" (his school name begins with H). So from there I went through all the letters and the sounds. Saying things like "p for pppppig. R for rrrrrabbit" and he was really engaged with it all. So if he's showing that sort of interest with me I imagine he is with his parents too yet they aren't encouraging it at all. I don't get it. but as pp's have said perhaps they're waiting for school as they don't want to confuse him using different teaching methods. I don't know though. I don't see what harm going through "b for banana c for cat" is really going to do.

Nope. I think school (in the UK, which is not where I'm originally from, but where DS started school) starts too early anyway. I read to him a huge amount because he loved it, and it's likely he picked things up by osmosis, but didn't do any teaching.