Dd 7,can she ever catch up? Bottom of class nearly

[Windyjuly]

I know she is so young but, I'm also worried about why she has been near the bottom of the class.

She's done so well over lockdown with 1:1 with me. We've come on 2 reading levels. Her writing has improved. Her maths is slow but we have a tutor for that.

I've been reading that dc who are behind at 7 can't catch up.

I think she has ability, she's very active but I can't see why she has not been doing well in school.
So even though I reckon we will have '' boosted'' her from nearly the bottom of the class.... What then? Or is reading really the magic key?
Can I really help her catch up on 2 years of no learning? Does it matter once she can read and understands basic grammar and has basic ok spelling?

I've been trying to cover high frequency words, but where too next! Some days I feel there is hooe6, other days I feel very overwhelmed especially as I go back to work soon. And we won't have that time for support as much as now.

• hope

Are you sure there’s no SEN going on? My 8yr old is being investigated for dyslexia. Really behind but bright in other ways so surprised me. It’s that or inattentive ADHD, maybe both. The assessor seemed confident the result would change her teaching and she had plenty of time to catch up. In your position I’d be pushing the SENCO to investigate.

I've been reading that dc who are behind at 7 can't catch up
No two children are alike and while we have some stats to support these kinds of things it doesn't mean your daughter can't or won't catch up. Try not to worry too much now op as you said she's come on leaps. Wait a little longer and keep doing what you're doing with her

She absolutely can catch up. She's very young for the formal learning we do in this country.
Keep supporting her, reading with her, playing games etc.
My best friend's daughter was like this always considered lovely but not top of the class and it took until year six for her to finally hit her stride. She did brilliantly in her sats and is now in set 1/2 for maths and science at high school. (Well, before covid).

Watching with interest. My DD is the same age and similar. I give her a lot of my time but she really struggles. Having a private assessment for inattentive ADHD and dyslexia. Is bright but very shy also.

Are you sure there’s no SEN going on?
Yes of course. I was assuming child is NT

Ok so I think there is information we are missing out on here. You said she's missed two years of learning? And how do you know she's bottom of the class? I would never share that information with a parent. It's a bit meaningless really as she could be in a very strong class.

I would look at her progress rate. If she has progressed at a similar or quicker pace than peers then I would have no concern, though I'd keep up the support at home.

If she is struggling with her learning have you considered having her assessed?

Phonics is the number one thing to get secure.

It is hard to catch up, in reality, because everyone else is making progress too.

I would try to get both a tutor, and a dyslexia assessment from an educational psychologist or specialist dyslexia assessor. Even if dyslexia is not the final diagnosis, you will learn a lot of useful information about your child's strengths and weaknesses.

And how do you know she's bottom of the class? I would never share that information with a parent.

Kids know which group they are in. Kids know which group does the easiest work and which group does the hardest work. I’ve been able to place my kids pretty accurately in the class in each subject pretty much since day 1.

I had a very low low low child in my class. I mean quiet low. Did everything I could to get him to read , write and improve maths. He ended up getting high marks in his tests. It is possible.

But the thing is ‘catch up?’ ‘Bottom of the class’ these things are very subjective. What do you mean by catch up on 2 years? Reading really is key. It really is. Not just for phonics but for general knowledge, comprehension and just expanding the brain as she goes into KS2.
But the thing is, not everyone is academic, not everyone learns at the same rate. Some struggle at primary, but fly once in secondary, some the reverse. Some are way way ahead academically but once in the real world, family life, a career etc just can’t cope.
Focus on reading, writing and maths but don’t stress if she isn’t ‘at the same level’ as other kids. Take her to many interesting places to pick up knowledge and find what she is interested in and good at. Museums, rivers, walks, county parks, animal sanctuary’s, just everything you can get your hands on!
She will find something she loves. Success in life doesn’t always have to be measured by ‘academic’ success. If that isn’t what she excels at then you might have to accept that and focus on what she is good at.
I am a KS1 teacher and have multiple primary aged kids so have seen all sorts of children and various abilities

Re SEN. She does do someone reversals. It used to be quite frequent. She's better now but occasionally does it.

She will be included in the next round of Ed Physc. At school.

When I'm with her, she seems to pick up quite dry, very, very dry boring stuff well.

We've been covering grammar since lock down. Short bursts. She seems to be remembering it with slight help.
Eg quite a while ago we did possessive apostrophe. And yesterday I asked her to change... '' the bag belongs to Jane'' into' jane's bag 'and she got it.

Apparently with covid Ed psych will be delayed, backed up etc. It could be ages before we see someone. But if she is dyslexia and it's mild what then? I don't feel our school can cope with differentiate like this....

I'd hate for all our hard work to go to waste and as other pp said, other dc are coming on as well.
I'm very grateful the teacher gave me an honest appraisal of where she is in a class of 60 because for 2 years I feel I've been kept in the dark.
It's action stations now and we've got help.

Does it matter once she can read and understands basic grammar and has basic ok spelling?

No, it doesn't matter if she's late to acquire the skills of writing. However if she's likely to catch up can depend on why she's "late" to acquire those skills, what matters more is knowledge, problem solving skills, vocabulary etc. If she has all of that, but hasn't mastered technical skills, then there's a good chance that she can catch up. However if for example, her receptive and productive vocabulary are at a similar level to her reading skill, then accelerating is less likely.

Of course, my dd1 had a friend like this, always on the bottom tables, in support lessons for extra help with maths and english. She moved to a small school in yr5, a few years later we learned she was at one of the top super selective grammars in the country. She's now yr11 and absolutely thriving, so yes, absolutely it can be done. Fwiw, the children who were top of the class the whole way through primary didn't get into the super selective grammar, she was the only one.

time

By catch up I guess I mean, be where she should be.
She's not in my view someone who should be in the bottom of 60.
Obviously we've not been able to take her anywhere over lock down, but since the musuems opened we've been to one every weekend.
We've covered the great fire of London, NHM, etc. I do much repeating with her. Layering stuff, all the time. She expressed interest in volcanoes so we showed her that, in how earth's started so tried to show her that.

She's definitely a pupil who needs a quick reaction to her progress, if she's held back, she switches off.
I'm worried as she was in the intervention groups, what will happen now.

If they can't keep up, it also causes problems. Eg her book band.

effieI think smaller school is probably the key isn't it.
I've managed to get a decent amount of work out of her during lock down. What if we go back to her picking nothing up in class again, but refusing to work even 1/2 an hour with me because she's so tired from school!!

Small school doesn't necessarily mean small classes though. Small schools can have a mixed year classes of 30+ children (I know of a Y3/4/5/6 class that had 36 in it). It's about the teaching she gets and the effort she puts in, and yes a small class size would help. You mention HFW and I think you need to keep pushing with these if she doesn't know them at the end of Y2. Fluency in reading is a huge indicator of future success.

My dd7 is in the top group for English and reading and I don't think she would have got your apostrophe example? I mean I have never thought to ask her but I'm sure she would have to really try.
What has the teacher actually said? How do you know she is behind?
Without sounding patronising maybe you are over thinking this? I get education is important but she's still so little. We support our childrens education and do stuff with them but more naturally if that makes sense. Sounds like it's quite a focus in your lives but not in a good way.

@Notimeforaname not sure what that means but it clearly was relevant if she’s next in line for an observation in school.

Reversals lots here too, reading the last letter first and guessing words. Numbers too. The assessor was very confident that the school and parents can implement techniques to improve things a lot. We’ve also found being at home has resulted in more progress with reading than school. The class sizes is a factor because she doesn’t take information in verbally as much as visually - when you describe a concept you will show her examples until she understands, and will direct check with her. School could never do this.

It’s utterly heartbreaking. But I do think they can catch up and succeed. My sister was similar and has (until Covid) a great career, never diagnosed as a child but had some personal tutoring. Lots of scientists are dyslexic (Maggie Aderin-Pocock talks about it alot), plus loads of artists.

I’m a primary school teacher and I wonder how do you know she is so far behind? Which book band level is she on?
What is her writing like?
What sort of maths can she do independently? Adding up to 10? 20? 100?

You say shes the bottom of the class of 60 children. Is she ones of youngest in her age group? Ie august birthday in england?

Also if the teacher is truly saying she’s near the bottom of 60 (and I’m shocked they said this to be honest) then what they should be following it up with is what they’re going to do about it!
I’d aim to keep up with some home learning in short bursts outside of school. You sound like a lovely mum!

Of course she can. As long as she is willing to work and has motivation. Reading and basic maths (times tables and the four operations) are the main building blocks. Also anything you can to boost confidence. Sometimes things just take longer to 'click' for some children but as long as she perseveres she will get there!

Of course a 7 year old can catch up. I was still on flash cards at 7. Phonics is a pile of crap for lots of kids -there are too many exceptions. We dumped phonics and did sight reading with DS with very good results.

I ended up with A level grades that were in the top 3%nationally, a 2:1 from a RG uni, professional qualifications and a prestigious career.

Kids mature at different stages. I was very underachieving at primary middle of the road all through secondary, found my true ability level at A level once the learning wasn’t so boring and superficial.

Just keep plodding at your child’s pace, don’t worry about others, she will find her true level at some point. Just keep supporting her to keep trying.

It depends where the rest of the kids are ability wise. Bottom is subjective.

Try not to compare if you can. I know that's hard. And, yes, there's lots of time and changes in children.