Dd 7,can she ever catch up? Bottom of class nearly

[Windyjuly]

I know she is so young but, I'm also worried about why she has been near the bottom of the class.

She's done so well over lockdown with 1:1 with me. We've come on 2 reading levels. Her writing has improved. Her maths is slow but we have a tutor for that.

I've been reading that dc who are behind at 7 can't catch up.

I think she has ability, she's very active but I can't see why she has not been doing well in school.
So even though I reckon we will have '' boosted'' her from nearly the bottom of the class.... What then? Or is reading really the magic key?
Can I really help her catch up on 2 years of no learning? Does it matter once she can read and understands basic grammar and has basic ok spelling?

I've been trying to cover high frequency words, but where too next! Some days I feel there is hooe6, other days I feel very overwhelmed especially as I go back to work soon. And we won't have that time for support as much as now.

My daughter made loads of progress on Nessy Learning. I don't think she is dyslexic but the more visual way of learning just clicked with her and she got much much better at reading/spelling. We had tried various other things to help before that. Another of my children got on really well with the Power of 2 intervention for Maths - she hadn't grasped the basics of number so nothing else was making much sense to her and this filled in the basics. I do think exceptional progress is quite possible with kids around this age and it is possible for them to catch up and to exceed (the kids at our local independent schools are often working a year ahead of state schools and I don't think the kids are brighter, just better taught). I do think it is about finding out what the issue is (not necessarily SEN but where the gaps are in their knowledge) and then finding what works for them to sort it.

Yes she absolutely can catch up. Keep an eye on what specific issues she has and address those. Lots of love, patience and focused attention will do wonders. She's still so young, she'll find her stride. Best wishes.

She absolutely can catch up. Sounds like lockdown has demonstrated that. My eldest was really struggling at that age and it meant he couldn't cope with school. We did extra stuff (only 10-15 minutes worth) until he left primary by which time he was flying. Not all children develop at the same pace.

As a pp said all kids mature and develop at different rates.

My ds was at the bottom right the way through primary but not far enough behind the others that the school needed to help him. We were told that they only offer extra help etc if they are 2 years behind! My concern was that he wasn’t at his potential and we needed to find a way to help him which the school were not willing to do.

He went to secondary school and was predicted to get get grade 2 or 3 for all GCSEs but we worked hard with him and encouraged him all the way. I got him tutors for maths, science and English which helped him enormously as well as giving him confidence. As he went through secondary he blossomed and grew into his skin which is the only way I can think to describe the transformation. He studied and studied for his exams and he passed every single one!!

He is now 17 and at college doing a course he loves and working towards a career he is incredibly passionate about.

My advice would be to keep encouraging your dd and helping her where you can but also to work on her inner confidence so that she is not bothered by others who fly through school and who are always top of the class.

My DS2 was very slow to get to grips with reading and writing and maths too, literally below the bottom group and needed a scribe until the end of primary school for longer pieces of work. He did not click with phonics, I eventually did "Toe by Toe" at home and he was away (think he was about 9). He was imaginative and interested in many things but just couldnt get to grips with school work, i was very worried.
He ended up his school career with top grades and the English prize and is at a top uni studying History.
He also developed a phenomenal memory as he had to remember what the teacher said and effectively write stories in his head, this has been very useful.
You may have to try several approaches to find the right one. Read books that are above her own reading level to help with concentration and comprehension and be patient.

My son is adopted, he came to me at 7, attending special school and working below national curriculum levels.

Tomorrow we are off to his mainstream secondary school to get his GCSEs. He is not a great academic but will do well enough to move on to the next phase of his life.
i have never worried about his place in the class, what other children are doing or achieving. I didnt give two hoots about SATs or if he was 'where he should be'.
I have only ever focused on him and his achievements. Over the last 8 years, there have been some years where he made huge leaps, others more modest progress, but as long as he was moving forward that was fine by me.

Are the 60 children in the classroom with one teacher??

@Miner49er how do you find those specialists?

It all depends why she is behind, what they are doing about it and whether her needs are being met. The reality is that if a child has a learning disability, they won't catch up. They will become further behind over time, because they learn at a slower rate than their peers. However, if the cause of being behind is something that can be overcome through better (more bespoke) teaching methods, strategies, etc., or treatment such as grommets for glue ear, then a child can make enormous progress in a short time and catch up.

I’d go even more basic than possible Sen - have you checked her eyesight and hearing?

My sister was for about a year, thought by her teacher and my parents to possibly have a Sen - turned out she needed glasses AND had some hearing loss we think as a result of a virus.

Once she had glasses (which she hated mind) and was placed at the front of the class to hear and see the teacher better she not only caught up she raced ahead!

Also I don’t have “normal” hearing loss but I struggle to process deep sounds and can’t hear what people say in noisy environments but where others seem to manage fine.

It might even be something as daft but impactful as glue ear!

I’d go even more basic than possible Sen - have you checked her eyesight and hearing?

Absolutely this. Somewhat dismayed at the number of responses, including from teachers, before anyone mentioned the first thing you should check, especially in a child who is doing better in the home environment than a busy classroom.

Make an appointment to speak to the class teacher and Senco (remotely if necessary) and ask them what is being put in place in school to support her and what would be most effective for you and the tutor to do at home.

What you can do in the meantime:
Lots of reading and talking - do interesting things and discuss them with her
Find a non-academic hobby that she can be successful at - it can be very demoralising to work hard and not achieve what you see others do seemingly effortlessly
Value her for herself and don't compare her negatively with others or your aspirations - academic attainment is not the only (or most important) quality to develop or value.

@Windyjuly I don't know where you read about kids being bottom staying at the bottom at age 7 and how this conclusion was reached.

My personal experience says the opposite. And yours as well. By working with her, she progressed.
So yes, do all the above recommendations about eyes, ears, etc.... but remember she improved with you.

Because of my DH's work, we change countries a lot. My 3 DC have been in 4 different schools systems, 4 languages, 4 different curriculum, 4 different way of teaching/learning . Every time we changed, they were at the bottom of the pile, or even worse underground. I worked with them at home, after school. We are French, and France is well known for long hours at home. IT is not about doing sheets after sheets, but reading with them, to them, but not those artificially crafted stories that need to focus on certain words. Real books.

In my experience, screens kill any possibility of working from home. After school, chat on the way home, have a snack in the kitchen , clean the table and work together, and finish it off with a couple of chapters that YOU read to her from an old style book, when they used elaborate language. Any pause with a screen, even a 3 min YouTube video, impossible to do anything.

Of course, she doesn't have to be academic to be happy or successful. But I believe at 7 it is a bit early to throw the towel and give up.

I have seen 4 school systems and what I can say is that it is ridiculous to except any system to fit all students' personality and way of thinking but this doesn't mean that if you struggle in the school system you have a SEN., It might simply be that the school system doesn't fit you.

You were able to reach her and work with her. Keep doing it. Work with paper and pencil, workbook and books, not digital resources, websites and the like.

I'm not sure how helpful this will be but I just felt the need to comment !

I used to be a nanny (as a Brit in Australia). The boy I nannied for only started prep (reception) at 6. He'd just turned 6 the week before term started. His parents had done no reading or writing with him beforehand. He could write his 4 letter name and that was it. Didn't know the full alphabet (always missed parts) and couldn't recognise letters of the alphabet. I was really surprised as this is so different to how it's done in the UK.
But he's 10 now and absolutely the same as any other 10 year old, UK or Australia.
In Scandinavia kids don't start formal education until 7. I'm not sure if most kids start learning stuff at home beforehand but they don't start learning to read and write in school until 7.
So to put it simply, I imagine your DD absolutely will be able to catch up!! If a 6 year old who didn't even know the letters of the alphabet is now fine age 10 I'm sure your DD will be ok.

I think it’s possibly the class of 60 that is the problem! That’s awful.

It sounds like you have been doing good work with her. It will all click one day, and all this worry may be a distant memory.

Continue to work with her while you can and get her confidence up. Get her properly tested for dyslexia, dyscalculia (the maths equivalent of dyslexia) and any other possible diagnoses so you know what, if anything you are working with and make decisions any diagnoses might have at the time. Try not to work out what you can do if x, y or z happens. Other than being open to all findings and suggestions plus consider the possibility of switching schools if it would be in her best interests once you have the facts. Most importantly breathe and don't get bogged down in writing the final chapter when you haven't got the facts for the middle of the book. Good luck, you sound like you are doing your job in being DD's greatest advocate.

My son was bottom of his class at about 10. He has ADHD and his attention just drifted. The school was always banging on about phonics. He was in the lowest stanine for maths and I didn't get the impression he was at the top of the lowest stanine either. We tried medication and it helped but it wasn't enough.

I read a book called "Right-Brained Children in a Left-Brained World" by Jeffrey Freed and it was a revelation for me. People can quibble about the science concepts but the practical suggestions turned my son's life around. One of the things was that an ADHD child responds much better to one on one teaching. They have to react to the person rather than daydreaming and I spent a great deal of time doing one to one coaching of whatever they were doing in school. I also had previously believed that lack of phonics was the reason for bad spelling but discovered that he simply didn't learn like that. The book's techniques for spelling turned his weekly spelling list into a minor chore rather than the seven day marathon we had before.

He didn't turn into a great student but he was hardworking and good enough to get into university. This is not a Pollyanna story and there were plenty of tears and setbacks plus a huge sacrifice of my time with the extra coaching. I'm not saying your child is ADHD of course but some of the techniques may be helpful. I'm not related to the author and don't have any connection to him but it made such a difference to our lives and I remember how worried I was at the time. I do think part of my son's problem though was that he had undiagnosed hearing issues when he was very young so I would second people suggesting that you check eyesight and hearing.

A class of 60 ?
Surely this is a massive reason why she’s a bit behind her peers.

But all of the children are putting up with a class of 60 and she's still at the bottom. There must be other reasons.

Can you pay for your own Ed Psych? If so I'd be doing this. You need to check for dyslexia ASAP, as it takes them quite a while to catch up afterwards. My DS was diagnosed at the beginning of y4, and I can only truly say he's "caught up" now at end of y9.

Gosh yes, of course. My dd slid down to bottom set maths by yr6 (3 sets). I only found out in the middle of the year 6 having just had major surgery so let it go. She was in the top set the year before btw. Then the jump to secondary was difficult, the English far too hard - produce a piece of work task every day with no teaching or guidelines to set work out, which would not happen in a classroom setting).

She now has a tutor for maths and English and she is coming on leaps and bounds. Confidence rather than ability has pulled her back, along with worry about me. Her confidence is up greatly. I also hear about a lot of children diagnosed with dyslexia when they reach secondary and go from bottom set to middle or top sets.

Don’t despair. This isn’t set for life.

I’m a primary teacher and I’m glad you’ve had the chance to do more 1:1 work. This has obviously really helped your daughter’s confidence as you’ve noticed that her reading has improved.

Please continue to listen to her read and practise her grammar every day. Your encouragement and interest in her work seems to have made her very eager to learn.

Children learn at different speeds and in different ways. Also, contrary to what PP have said, your DD might not have SEN. Now that you have boosted her confidence, she might not “switch off” or get distracted as quickly. When I notice a distracted child, they often don’t fully understand the topic of the lesson. I adapt my teaching so that everyone can learn. Case in point: a lower KS2 girl was in the lowest set and struggled with maths and English. After doing a few interventions with her, she was eager to raise her hand to answer my maths questions! She also didn’t get too distracted as she was focused on her work.

Yes she can, at that age I was bottom of the class all the time. Just didn't see the point. It clicked at the end of primary school. Now I am a doctor.

There are some great stories on here. It's interesting how kids develops and learn so differently.

Good luck OP.

Ted 27

Good luck for today!

• class is 30, year group is 60.ie she's in bottom for the year group.

Some really positive and helpful replies, thank you. We have had her hearing checked and her eyes but not the next level of eyes eg tracking?

Yes I'm considering paying for private Ed psych. I wonder how much the school one could do anyway with several other dc in a classroom? Ie stretched? Or perhaps it doesn't take long to diagnose things?

*those asking about book level she was just starting level 6 at the beginning of lock down back in March. She's a child who needs to see and feel progress. The school is too clunky in responses. Not their fault its just the way it is. I've been able to get her going now reading has been in my hands.

She's a comfortable stage 8 now and I'm not sure if she can get to stage 9 before Sept she has about 9 stage 8 left to read. I think 8 is a far better stage to be on entering year 3 than 6.
She's much better at fluency, quickly decoding words. She mostly understands the comprehensive side. Her vocabulary is coming on.
The book, left hand brain, sounds interesting.

Since October half term the school put her on sen register but I think she's always been or had some interventions and that was since October. When I asked the school for progress report, ie was the intervention working... They only told me about 1 thing which was actually my work on her spelling.
So even with extra phonics and maths, in very small groups... It's still only me who seems to have been able to assist her in this progress jump?

I don't spend long trying to explain things, it's the repeating to make sure it sticks.
Ideally when she goes back, if I knew exactly what the teachers taught then go over it myself with her, that would help but another mum asked for something like this and was rebuffed.

I'm not happy with the school, but my options are quite limited here. I don't feel they are on my side to help dd. Eg when I thought it might be a hearing issue, I asked would it be possible to put her near the front... I was curtly told they would try but obviously they have lots of dc who need to be at the front!!
It seems tutors are perhaps the key. They get to know the child and can offer that more bespoke service...

Panda, I'm not sure her teachers understand that sort of thing?
I absolutely will do what she will allow me too, I may keep up our reading chest subscription so we can access books more quickly than we get in school.

I've been using the Carol voderman books and they seem quite good and easy to follow.. So I will carry on with that.
With spelling I'm trying to do hfw and mfw with some more difficult words each week.

I feel positive because I have brought her on. I feel negative because I'm worried she will feel despondent and lost in the classroom again. I'm happy to know for sure she is an able girl and can work well and Learn but again I worry the school can't teach her and she'll loose it. She's actually quite competitive!

I'm hoping with all my heart that now she's picked up quite a bit over lock down, that she does engage more in the classroom. If they go back over stuff that should be even better, it will reinforce it further as well as show her she can do it and be the same as her peers.

@Windyjuly

My boy smashed it, Maths 6, Science 5, English 4, Citelizenship 5,

We are happy bunnies 😎