High earner - but unsettled

[Iprobap]

Annual pay about £250k, between 16% - 50% discretionary bonus and shares. Overseas based for UK global financial services company.

Personally still earn full salary, but possible no increase, bonuses and shares this year and next few maybe? I foresee retrenchments in future because of COVID-19.

I know we are on different scales on here and this is no brag. Curious to know if others are as unsettled by possibility of losing benefits because of impact of COVID-19 on global economy?

@dontdisturbmenow where did I make the assumption that all those who are financially successful had those advantages & didn't work hard? I said - it doesn't necessarily mean they haven't had advantages to get where they are

I think I already said upthread that a 100k job can be open to all but the 500k jobs not so much. I don't take the view that high earners don't work hard & haven't said that.

Are you going to answer my question?

I do think that respect vs resentment does depend on what people do and not just what they earn.

I think just about everyone admires a top consultant/surgeon and no one is resentful if they can earn £250-500k per annum based on private work etc. I think the same goes for a top scientist or an entrepreneur who has built a business from scratch.

On the other hand a manager, a mid level financier or management consultant who happens to earn the same may we’ll be resented, probably because people doubt they do much genuinely hard to earn the money or add much to society.

People should be able to earn what they can, doing what they want. I am a great believer in the free market. However, to demand respect at the same time, especially if you feel as if £250k is less than you are worth, is a step too far.

@Iprobap you are not allowed to earn lots and be worried or unhappy on mn.

you are not allowed to earn lots and be worried or unhappy on mn

We are all human, and have worries and fears.

By the same token, those who are scraping by on the breadline are told to sell everything, live off lentils and the famous mumsnet chicken right?

@Iggly

you are not allowed to earn lots and be worried or unhappy on mn

We are all human, and have worries and fears.

By the same token, those who are scraping by on the breadline are told to sell everything, live off lentils and the famous mumsnet chicken right?

You forgot take in ironing.

I find it really weird that so many people accept as gospel that high earners a. Are really good at what they do and b. Work super hard.

It's luck. Luck of birth, education, getting a foot in the door, having a face that fits.

In corporate world anyway, not thinking about entrepreneurs here.

The idea that the wealthy deserve it and the not wealthy just need to work harder/ choose a different role etc is lazy thinking. And designed to assuage guilt.

I find it really weird that so many people accept as gospel that high earners a. Are really good at what they do and b. Work super hard

Yes, I agree. I know quite a few mediocre and/or not particularly hardworking people who earn six figures (some very high six figures and above).

Employers value different things and it's not always about the person being amazing - in many industries and companies, employers just need competent bums on seats and obviously have to pay market rates to recruit and retain them.

I used to earn six figures and am now on benefits. Neither my value as a person nor my abilities have changed - it's just that I'm not doing that in-demand job at the moment.

I do accept I'm in a very privileged position and that not everyone has the opportunities that I have had - I consider myself very lucky to have the choices I have open to me. I have struggled greatly in life, but alongside my not insignificant disadvantages, I was blessed with decent cognitive functioning and benefitted from sufficient time and headspace to access self-help and develop grit and other coping skills which made the difference for me personally. This was complete luck as I wouldn't have been able to develop sufficient coping skills had I been born differently and that wasn't anything I can take credit for!

Hello Harry Enfield, Loadsamoney? You really are very crass. Do fuck off.

@fishonabicycle

Hello Harry Enfield, Loadsamoney? You really are very crass. Do fuck off.

I think telling someone to fuck off is more crass.

find it really weird that so many people accept as gospel that high earners a. Are really good at what they do and b. Work super hard.

Yep, the director where I used to work used to stroll in when he wanted (absolute nightmare for his PA rearranging his meetings etc), delegate ALL of his work, always have someone countersign everything he was responsible for so he had a fall man, first out of the door after work, and wouldn't ever meet with external stakeholders. His knowledge wasn't even as good as some of the other senior staff, but they wanted the 'prestige' of where he used to work. Waste of £150k. He was fired not long after I left. Like any job, any sector, any pay range, some work amazingly hard and are incredible at what they do, some don't (and for some reason don't get taken to task for ages).

Not financially struggling. Only that I wanted to buy DC a house and pay it off in quicker.
FFS

Have a look at the below to see how ridiculously banks renumerate ordinary employees.

Do not be fooled by the titles. Anyone half way okay becomes a VP in their late 20s and the title Managing Director basically means team leader/department head (teams of about 20). They are not an MD in the normal sense of the word.

It really is no surprise that when the hard times come, there is no equity left in the pot and governments are called upon to bail out the banks. Meanwhile, of course, the employees retain all their past bonuses.

www.pageexecutive.com/sites/pageexecutive.com/files/Banking-Asset-Management-Salary-Survey-2019.pdf

@larrygrylls

That’s interesting- one of their consultants worked in digital advertising and has an English degree. I remember reading arts degrees are actually really prevalent in banking.

Isn't everyone unsettled with Covid impacts on wages, the economy etc etc regardless of your income?

Luckily you are in a position to make lifestyle changes, should you need to.

In your industry the bonuses are such that you are expected to weather the highs and lows, otherwise they'd be part of your core package.

I use 'weather' loosely. You have no mortgage and you're moaning about not being able to pay for your child's house more quickly, which they can buy for themselves if they are an earning adult. You probably know that the average cost of a house is your annual wage? Yuu really need some perspective

@LonginesPrime

I find it really weird that so many people accept as gospel that high earners a. Are really good at what they do and b. Work super hard

Yes, I agree. I know quite a few mediocre and/or not particularly hardworking people who earn six figures (some very high six figures and above).

Employers value different things and it's not always about the person being amazing - in many industries and companies, employers just need competent bums on seats and obviously have to pay market rates to recruit and retain them.

I used to earn six figures and am now on benefits. Neither my value as a person nor my abilities have changed - it's just that I'm not doing that in-demand job at the moment.

I do accept I'm in a very privileged position and that not everyone has the opportunities that I have had - I consider myself very lucky to have the choices I have open to me. I have struggled greatly in life, but alongside my not insignificant disadvantages, I was blessed with decent cognitive functioning and benefitted from sufficient time and headspace to access self-help and develop grit and other coping skills which made the difference for me personally. This was complete luck as I wouldn't have been able to develop sufficient coping skills had I been born differently and that wasn't anything I can take credit for!

I also agree, I don't live in UK any more but work as a contractor, just happen to be in a city which has a shortage of IT professionals, so I earn $2k per day. I don't work particularly hard at all, in fact at moment I'm doing 3 days a week from home and spent the afternoon by the pool with TEAMs on my phone.

I'm super cautious though, and definitely conscious it could end at any point, so have a very normal house (for where I live), drive crap cars and my kids go to state school, and i save 50% of my wages every month. I count my lucky stars every day that i"m in position I'm in, particularly when there's so many losing their jobs, having hours cut and struggling to pay rent.

I work for an oil and gas company, and some of the salaries are obscene, and no, I don't think they're any more skilled or hard working at their jobs than the colleagues I've worked with when I've contracted elsewhere, just lucky their in this industry - until now, not sure how long these salaries can be sustained while oil prices are through the floor.

larrygrylls although I agree in principle about what jobs and roles are valued by society I do question NHS consultants trained entirely by the public purse then earning obscene amounts as consultants in private practice 2-3 days a week when the NHS is starved of cash with huge waiting lists.

Attitudes of trust and confidence are inconsistent.
Doctors and nurses good. Care home workers not do much.
Charity workers are valued but shouldn't earn to much. NHS consultants can earn fortunes in private practice.
Entrepreneurs and family businesses admired, corporate workers not so much.
Lawyers, accountants - mixed views.

I tend to imagine that people have worked pretty hard to get to the top of their professions and take a lot if responsibility and probably absorb a lot of stress. But that's true for frontline workers too.

I don't begrudge anyone for making a lot of money, I work with people who make several times what I do and they work really hard and extremely long hours.

I do take issue to the 1% moaning about missing their bonuses when there are people who literally can't put shoes on their children's feet or feed them without going without themselves.

actually I could live with about 50% less of guaranteed pay. We own our house outright. I drive an 8 year-old VW Polo. I am unsettled by losing what I am used to getting, especially given workplace expectations are higher than before.

I had plans, which will be slowed down by this.

So that would be relevant if you make 250k or 25k surely? Why even mention your salary; you just alienate most potential responders? If your genuine concern was not being appropriately remunerated then plenty of people can relate to that, on all scales of income. It clearly isn’t, else you wouldn’t have revolved your post around your salary.

DH made 100k last year, lost his job in April. We had saved a significant chuck of his income. He is due to start a new job next week. Our savings have taken a hit, but we haven’t had to adjust our lifestyle and at no point did we fear losing our house etc. Does that help? Hopefully you’ll be the same.

I used to work in a top city law firm as a solicitor on a decent salary. I was top of my class at grammar school, went to oxbridge etc etc and worked 12-15 hours every day including weekends whilst in the law firm on the normal career path. Had I stuck it out for 15 years plus I would be on 1.1mio pounds plus per year as an equity partner. The people at the top were all very clever, very hard working and made huge personal sacrifices (ie very limited time with their children/constantly cancelled holidays etc, on call 24/7). Like many of my colleagues, I took an easier route which is still well paid, more manageable time wise etc. In my law firm it isn’t a question of luck but sheer hard work. Most people just cannot do it ie get to the top. You need the whole package: super bright, dedicated, people’s skills, grit and probably a calm temperament too. Most very successful people that I have met do have something extra in terms of intelligence and work focus. In a group of 60 very talented graduates coming in all with top grades only a handful will make it to the top. Most corporates are actively looking for genuinely bright self-motivated young people who are resilient and very much self starters. Sadly many bright underprivileged kids self select out of grammar, oxbridge and top city firms and more needs to be done in this regard. Good quality free online a level course content would be a good start.

@Seaside01

Could I ask where? Am interested in IT

Most corporates are actively looking for genuinely bright self-motivated young people who are resilient and very much self starters. Sadly many bright underprivileged kids self select out of grammar, oxbridge and top city firms and more needs to be done in this regard

While I agree that schools, universities and city firms need to do more to attract and accommodate bright underprivileged kids (and many have now begun to in recent years, which is great), I do think "self-select" is the wrong way to describe the barriers these kids face as it suggests to people who don't fully understand these accessibility issues that the problem lies with the person and not with the systems.

@LonginesPrime

Well said.

@LonginesPrime

Most corporates are actively looking for genuinely bright self-motivated young people who are resilient and very much self starters. Sadly many bright underprivileged kids self select out of grammar, oxbridge and top city firms and more needs to be done in this regard

While I agree that schools, universities and city firms need to do more to attract and accommodate bright underprivileged kids (and many have now begun to in recent years, which is great), I do think "self-select" is the wrong way to describe the barriers these kids face as it suggests to people who don't fully understand these accessibility issues that the problem lies with the person and not with the systems.

Just what I was going to say but you got there first. “Self select” indeed.

Bloody hell, OP. Read the room.

Then count every one of your 250,000 blessings.