High earner - but unsettled

[Iprobap]

Annual pay about £250k, between 16% - 50% discretionary bonus and shares. Overseas based for UK global financial services company.

Personally still earn full salary, but possible no increase, bonuses and shares this year and next few maybe? I foresee retrenchments in future because of COVID-19.

I know we are on different scales on here and this is no brag. Curious to know if others are as unsettled by possibility of losing benefits because of impact of COVID-19 on global economy?

Regardless of the earnings, I would be grateful to have a job. You seem to be suggesting that you will still get your basic but just not your bonus. Personally, I think you sound greedy. This isn't forever. It's annoying, yes, but you own your house outright. What exactly were these plans that have been slowed down?

@Leafyhouse

I think there's an interesting cultural phenomenon going on here. In America, you're congratulated if you're a high earner, and asked what you did to earn it. In the UK, you get pulled down and told to 'remember your place'. I have a friend who emigrated to Texas for just this reason, now runs a very successful business.

It’s the politics of envy I am afraid.

Curious to know why you just didn’t post the last sentence of your OP?

You didn’t need to provide SO much info?

Since the thread has now moved on from OPs question and become a debate about perceived worth and success value, why in general are we so quick to attack people who have done better than us? This is true on MN as in general British society. Why is someone earning a high salary despised, and that is not hyperbole, it is exactly what happens which is why people are so secretive about what they earn (if high earner).

This also seeps in to general low attainment culture in our country where in schoolchildren or certain socioeconomic backgrounds are teased, bullied by peers for wanting to learn. The parents think place no value on education and aspirations are low. It’s even infiltrating celebrity culture where being a low achiever and having a nice backstory will do, never mind actually being a master at your skill.

This culture of mediocrity seems to be borne out of some sort of misplaced empathy where the only way you can empathise with low achiever is to be proud to be a low achiever. Incredibly sad and very worrying for future generations.

I earn almost as much, but am a bit unsure why you've included your salary in this question on a public forum that is no doubt full of families struggling to make ends meet.
Anyway, I am also worreid, partly because once at this level of earning, outgoings tend to be high and fixed.
Personally I have always been careful not to assume my earning potential will continue, partly because I knew taking maternity for a year each time would affect my marketability, and it definitely has. So we moved to a cheap part of the country 7 years ago, our mortgage payments are 5% of our joint income, we can cancel everything at any time, lose our jobs and still have six months of cash. This is purely because I like to be ready for a worst case scenario, although I might have been overzealous, as we also never go on nice holidays because my husband is convinced we're paupers.
Maybe you should also rethink the worst case planning.

I think there's an interesting cultural phenomenon going on here. In America, you're congratulated if you're a high earner, and asked what you did to earn it.

But the OP isn't asking us to congratulate her on her successful enterprise: she is asking us to commiserate.

The thing about bonuses is that we are forever being told that business managers and university Vice Chancellors and the rest of them deserve their bonuses on top of their already high salaries because, thanks to them, their institution/firm is experiencing success. In other words, salary is for their work, bonus is for when that work translates into success.
.
Which is, I suppose, fair enough.

But what is not fair is if people then start expecting bonuses even when the company is doing badly. That was never part of the deal.

@sst1234 I think it's quite complicated looking in as an outsider (not English). There is a lot of inequality so often the "high earners" went to the right schools, their parents were high earners etc so whilst I think someone from a disadvantage background can do well & get say a 150k job the 500k jobs are much harder for them to obtain. I also think social mobility has gone backwards. High earners often forget their "privilege" & think it's because they just worked hard. I also think morality is attached so a high earning consultant is deemed ok but an accountant or banker less so. Imo the wealth inequality is the bigger factor, lots of people are fine having 2nd homes & BTLs or passing millions onto their DC but think bankers should pay more tax. 🤷‍♀️

But I do agree that a culture of openness around salaries & jobs pulls the curtain back some what & gives an idea of what to aim for & what's out there.

What I also find a little bit odd & which I said upthread is when high earners are so conscious eg So we moved to a cheap part of the country 7 years ago, our mortgage payments are 5% of our joint income

whereas in reality I know plenty of people earning 100k between them who borrow 5 or 5.5x their salary to buy a property as it's still cheaper then renting. Often they have made 500k plus when selling on this property, although I think those days are gone.

No bonus next year/no pay rise for us either. To top it off they've cancelled the dividend from our shares.

Hoping the bonus element will change given that as a company we've repaid furlough monies to Government which will stop them meddling in any future reward packages.

I don't rely on my bonus but it's usually a good amount. Am cutting my cloth accordingly and have been since the Covid shit show came on the scene. It's been an eye opener for sure.

I'm more concerned about the mass job losses which have started already and are only set to get worse. If I still have a job next year I'll consider myself very lucky. No imminent threat of losing it but you never know.

So yes it is a worry but there's an awful lot more people worse off. Having to decide whether or not to go on next year's Xmas holiday to save a bit of cash isn't as important as ensuring you can feed your kids/pay mortgage/heat the house.

binky is making a good point. I would amplify this that the class structure and inherited wealth skews the perception of how people became wealthy. I think some of the reactions come from a sense that people get rich without having to work hard.

Wealth owning and doing certain jobs become linked with class identity.

I’m with you OP. Generally I’m an upbeat, positive, glass 1/2 full sort of person but the current global situation is certainly pretty worrying. We had our free school meal vouchers stopped in the holidays due to some sort of clerical error. I’ve re-applied and that’s sorted out but it’s considered a new application for this year so I won’t get the vouchers I missed. That’s ok for me because, having worked for 30 years before I became unwell I have a lot of options that many don’t have and am an expert with the Mumsnet chicken, but this may have happened to people who will really suffer.

But yes, we are in the middle of a global pandemic so we will just need to “gird our loins” and get on with it!

Crikey charlie!

Since the thread has now moved on from OPs question and become a debate about perceived worth and success value, why in general are we so quick to attack people who have done better than us? This is true on MN as in general British society. Why is someone earning a high salary despised, and that is not hyperbole, it is exactly what happens which is why people are so secretive about what they earn (if high earner)

What do you mean by “done better”?

If you think that money is what makes someone “better”, then fair point.

But many people do not think that your worth is determined by your bank account.

Because, if so, that automatically makes a newborn baby born to a rich family “better” than one born to someone on the breadline.

For me, that is the fundamental problem I have with all of this.

All very well do congratulate someone for earning loads of money but I don’t believe for a second that they were more deserving and more hardworking than someone who earns less.

@Iggly your immediate defensiveness proves that other poster’s point. “Done better” would be simply interpreted as “done better financially” not that they’re better than you morally, etc. This harshness and ease of derision towards more well off people is a serious problem in British society with lots of outsiders commenting on it. The automatic defensiveness shuts down dialogue.

@Iggly

You are basically virtue signalling. You know exactly what I am talking about. I am not comparing Warren Buffett with Mother Theresa as there is no comparison, both have done better than vast majority of people who share their motivations.

And by the way, caring jobs and key work does not exist in a vacuum, someone has to pay for it. It wasn’t paid for by non-key workers, there would be less of the kind of valuable work being done unless of course people choose it for charity, in which case it’s not paid work at all, rather volunteering. So taking of the blinkers for a rounded debate really helps.

Be grateful to have a roof over your head. Some of us are looking at homelessness and we have children.

@Iprobap

I know it is hard to believe given the usual MN poverty olympics.

That's actually a disgusting thing to say.

@sst1234

Since the thread has now moved on from OPs question and become a debate about perceived worth and success value, why in general are we so quick to attack people who have done better than us? This is true on MN as in general British society. Why is someone earning a high salary despised, and that is not hyperbole, it is exactly what happens which is why people are so secretive about what they earn (if high earner).

This also seeps in to general low attainment culture in our country where in schoolchildren or certain socioeconomic backgrounds are teased, bullied by peers for wanting to learn. The parents think place no value on education and aspirations are low. It’s even infiltrating celebrity culture where being a low achiever and having a nice backstory will do, never mind actually being a master at your skill.

This culture of mediocrity seems to be borne out of some sort of misplaced empathy where the only way you can empathise with low achiever is to be proud to be a low achiever. Incredibly sad and very worrying for future generations.

YES to all of this. In one of my earlier posts I mentioned how my husband was getting sick and tired of the “small” mentality in the UK. This sums it up perfectly @sst1234.

@ChazsBrilliantAttitude You are the kind of poster who keeps me coming back to mumsnet. Constructive and generous with information.

There have been quite a few posters saying they also earn near the OP. I wonder what everyone does. The high earners that I know in real life all live in London and work in law or finance. I imagine partners at well known consulting firms would also earn a lot. I wonder if there are other more interesting fields (beyond chat show host or pop star!)

I'm not really sure what you want from this? What are you curious to know? How the poor people who are about to get poorer feel? What an utterly bizarre post.

OP, cut yours costs, save all you can. This is what everyone else is doing

but I don’t believe for a second that they were more deserving and more hardworking than someone who earns less
I agree with the wrong description of 'better' but why is it unthinkable that a person with a high salary could have got there through working harder?

It could be the primary school kid who read 20 pages each night and completed additional maths work rather than watching TV.

It could be the secondary school kid who revised long hours for exams and started voluntary work rather than play in their Xbox.

The A levels kid who started their first pt job in addition to spending all hours at the library rather going out with friends.

And that throughout their life and through the choice they make. Of course some element of luck might get in the way but my experience looking at my past friends and kids'friends is that there is a definite correlation between those who prioritise work and the salary they earn as adults.

northprincess well exactly. The op's entire question, if you ignore the background stuff was ' I am curious to know if other people are unsettled by the possibility of losing their bonuses'

Its such a ridiculous question to post here that I still maintain this was not posted in good faith. But it sparked the predictable wealth fights and the latercomers who didnt RTFT. And of course the OP disappeared.