To think it's wrong to withdraw a job offer??

[Hellokitty82]

So my friend was interviewed then offered on the phone a job.
The HR lady said paperwork would be email and nothing came

She phoned them and now they've said they may withdraw the post owing to funding???

So the question is "does a verbal offer constitute a legal offer of employment" and if so can she do anything??

But job offers are generally conditional, based on references and paperwork and such. Funding is just another condition, I suppose.

Of course they can withdraw it

Unless it was an unconditional offer - in which case, a verbal offer is binding - then it can be withdrawn. That’s you never hand in your notice to your current job until you receive your unconditional offer or contract from the new one.

Your friend is obviously disappointed but hopefully hasn’t lost anything unless she was hasty enough to go handing in her notice immediately?

Job offers are usually conditional. I was offered a promotion last year and the hiring committee withdrew it because my old boss submitted a reference full of absolute lies. There was nothing I could do because the offer was conditional pending references, and the union said because the poor reference was a one-off and not systematic bullying I couldn’t appeal it. ‘References are subjective’, was the line.

I was the first person in the history of the organisation to lose an internal promotion, so I guess that’s something.

They have every right to withdraw it. Happens a lot with university posts because they don’t get the funding.

Sorry to your friend but unless she has signed a contract, then there is nothing she can do. She needs to look for another position.

Of course that's fine, otherwise they would have had to immediately make her redundant as soon as she started.

And this is why, even when they say at the interview "we need you to start in a week's time," you should never give notice on your old job until you have a written offer, which you have checked and accepted.

Morally wrong? Yes.

Can your friend sue if she relied on the phone call and quit her current job in anticipation? Well, she should get some legal advice (if she's a union member then her sub fee may cover this) but the usual rule of contract law in English common law countries (ie England and most Commonwealth countries) is that there are 4 elements to the formation of a contract (ie 4 things that ALL have to happen before a contract even exists). These are:

1. The making of an offer on terms. In your friend's case, the relevant offer legally would probably be the offer to employ in the contract.

1. Acceptance by both parties of the offer and terms . Your friend hasn't done this yet, as she's not signed a contract.

1. The giving by both parties of 'consideration' for the contract. Usually this is an 'exchange of promises' in the employment context. May have been given already in this case by a mutual exchange of promises but is usually contained in the written contract.

1. Mutual intention to be legally bound. In this case, if the employer wouldn't engage her unless she signed the contact first (which I suspect is the case) then there is no mutual intention to be bound before the contract is signed and returned.

As I say, if any one of the 4 elements above are absent, then the usual rule is that there's no contract. Meaning your friend couldn't sue for breach of contract, as there isn't one yet.

But this general principle of contrct law can be overridden by stature (or may not even apply at all if your friend doesn’t live in a common law jurisdiction), so best she gets some legal advice.

It's awful, my (civil service) employer withdrew a job offer in our team, they agreed a long start date as she was on maternity leave with another employer, I was even more shocked given it was due to Mat leave, but she hadn't started, funding opportunity had changed and it was legally fine apparently. I've always given notice as soon as I had an offer, I would obviously reconsider that now, but seeing as my current employer took several weeks AFTER starting to get a contract to me, I'm not sure what else I could have done?

It's understandably very disappointing for your friend but unless it was an unconditional offer or contracts had been signed I don't think it's wrong. Even then, if the funding has been withdrawn I am not sure what alternatives there are, unless your friend is willing to work for free. If it's a university setting I promise you they will be just as disappointed that the funding hasn't come through.

You can't 'do anything' about anything in employment law unless a) you've been there for 2 years or b) there's been discrimination. If there's a lack of funding, there's a lack of funding - it happens. It's a PITA and I'm sorry for your friend, but there's nothing to be done about it. All job offers are conditional - really, they're conditional on you completing probation if you think about it.

YABU. Of course they can withdraw the offer, and no, she can’t do anything about it.

It’s not wrong to withdraw if circumstances change.

I've always given notice as soon as I had an offer, I would obviously reconsider that now, but seeing as my current employer took several weeks AFTER starting to get a contract to me, I'm not sure what else I could have done?

They're hiring because they need someone - if you tell them you can't give notice until you've received the contract, they'll get it to you pretty quickly. It's very risky starting a job without a contract, and having the offer withdrawn is just the tip of the ice berg! What if the contract never comes through? What if it contains different terms to what you'd verbally agreed, or something you're not prepared to agree to?

If there's no funding the post is made redundant. Even if you accept the verbal offer as the start of employment she's not entitled to either notice or redundancy pay due to short service.

If there's no funding, there's no funding - I'm sure lots of employers are finding themselves in similar situations at the moment.

Offer should be got in writing unless you are taling about a small part time sort of job - and even then its best. Never hand notice in till you have it in writing, a job isn't yours until you turn up do your probation and pass untill then you can be out of it at a weeks notice so even with an offer in writing you can end up jobless due to a change of heart

If they don’t have the funding then they don’t have the funding.

I was offered a promotion last year and the hiring committee withdrew it because my old boss submitted a reference full of absolute lies. Did that mark his card at all?

Years ago I had similar and lost a promotion. 6 months later the boss who had written it was managed out, they combined offices and he drew the short straw, and I then got a promotion I wasn't expecting. I was always a bit bemused by that and had been job hunting anyway so Ieft without taking the promotion.

@PowerslidePanda almost always worked in public sector, it's always been like this and always trusted them, obviously I won't any more I was naive but I just trusted the government/council/university.

Of course they can withdraw the offer.
I received an amazing job offer in Feb to start in May. In April I was told because of the current situation they had to withdraw it. I had signed contract etc in may and was going through all the background checks.
I was gutted but understood the situation for what it was. With less than 2 years in the job you have no rights. I am pleased the offer was withdrawn rather than me start and then be made redundant.
I was lucky in that I was returning to work from being a sahm so am in no worse position than I was. I am not in the better position I was about to be in though.
I am still gutted, but in this current pandemic these things are going to happen
I was lucky they paid me a months salary too, but they didn't have to and I am very grateful they did.

As someone famous once said - a verbal contract isn’t worth the paper it’s written on.

• I had signed the contract in Feb

But on Mumsnet, if a candidate turns down a job after accepting, they are jumped on. 🤷🏻‍♀️

I sympathise with your friend, it’s a shit thing to do, not even letting her know till she chased them. It happened to me once. I consoled myself that I wouldn’t want to work for such inconsiderate people.

@FluffyKittensinabasket

But on Mumsnet, if a candidate turns down a job after accepting, they are jumped on. 🤷🏻‍♀️

Of course they are. Because recruitment is expensive, even more so if the candidate has started their training.

This happened a friend of mine too, for a legal executive in a legal firm. She was verbally offered the job with the written contract on the way...when she didnt hear from them after a week she rang to be told they were withdrawing the offer. Nothing she could do...she was extremely disappointed as she was unemployed at the time.