To think it's wrong to withdraw a job offer??

[Hellokitty82]

So my friend was interviewed then offered on the phone a job.
The HR lady said paperwork would be email and nothing came

She phoned them and now they've said they may withdraw the post owing to funding???

So the question is "does a verbal offer constitute a legal offer of employment" and if so can she do anything??

@CuriousaboutSamphire

I was offered a promotion last year and the hiring committee withdrew it because my old boss submitted a reference full of absolute lies. Did that mark his card at all?

Years ago I had similar and lost a promotion. 6 months later the boss who had written it was managed out, they combined offices and he drew the short straw, and I then got a promotion I wasn't expecting. I was always a bit bemused by that and had been job hunting anyway so Ieft without taking the promotion.

No, nothing will happen to her. She is very senior and very well-respected. We'd always gotten on very well and she told me to my face how impressed she was by some of the processes I'd implemented/overhauled. I thought it would look excellent on a job application to have such a senior member of staff vouch for me.

I spoke to her the day before she submitted the reference (just casually, I bumped into her on the street) and she seemed really keen. Then she submitted her reference stating that I she had seen no evidence of business improvement from me and she had no confidence in my ability to carry out the new role.

I felt like I'd been punched in the stomach when I heard. I went straight to her and asked her outright - she was cold as ice. Simply shrugged and said she had to tell the truth. I told her I was losing the job and she said "oh, that's a shame" in a deadpan tone. It's weird though - she had absolutely no "skin in the game", as in it made zero odds to her whether I got it or not. The job was in a totally different department. I was seething with rage for weeks and could have quite cheerfully lamped her had I seen her in person.

That happened to me. Offered job as TA, then 2 days later told lost withdrawn as no funding. But the woman whonwas the candidate then started as the TA.. Very fishy. Luckily i had been offered another job at the same time in a different school where ive been for 4 years and love it.

You should never act upon a job offer until you have it in written. A verbal offer means nothing.

I think that morally it is incredibly shitty, but legally it's fine. Nothing you can do about it except make a mental note to avoid that company in the future.

Not ideal but at least they were honest. Better than finding out on your first day that your role is being made redundant (happened to someone I worked with at a large multinational, thankfully he was redeployed to another role).

I do, they should be more organised and get "funding" confirmed BEFORE they start handing jobs out like sweets

No its not wrong. Job offers are always conditional based on satisfactory references, DBS checks sometimes, trial periods etc etc

If the company has suffered during covid and is having to downsize what on earth do you expect them to do?- they cant magic money out of nowhere. Surely noone can find it shocking that post lockdown, many companies are laying people off or having to downsize!

@TitsOutForHarambe

You should never act upon a job offer until you have it in written. A verbal offer means nothing.

I think that morally it is incredibly shitty, but legally it's fine. Nothing you can do about it except make a mental note to avoid that company in the future.

This

Your friend can't do anything. Sorry.

As others have said, a verbal offer is generally meaningless. It is only a contract if the verbal offer sets out the terms clearly (pay, hours, holidays, etc.), is clear that there are no conditions and you have accepted it. Even then, with nothing in writing it is very difficult to prove that there is a contract.

If you can prove that there is a contract you can, in theory, take the employer to court. However, unless the offer has been withdrawn for a discriminatory reason, all you are likely to get is notice pay as this is what you would have got if you had turned up on the first day and been fired immediately. If there is a contractual notice period that would apply. However, if there is no contractual notice period the statutory notice period would be used. For someone employed less than one month that is zero.

"That’s you never hand in your notice to your current job until you receive your unconditional offer or contract from the new one."

Sometimes they need to know your start date to make the contract and you sometimes need to discuss the start date with your current employer so it can easily happen that you need to give notice before signing your new contract.

" seeing as my current employer took several weeks AFTER starting to get a contract to me,"

Yes, that's quite common as well, only getting a contract after starting work. You can even have a totally legal, permanent job with no written contract.

"What if the contract never comes through? "

It's quite common not have a contract though isn't it? Your employment is then governed by employment law I believe.

You can’t trust employers.

I started cabin crew training at an airline a few years ago, I don’t know if anybody remembers when oil hit an all time high but the airline panicked.

The training class behind us was cut. They had started the training and were a week in when they told all training was cancelled and they were made redundant. I think they got a month of pay. Hopefully some of them then could return to their old jobs, the rest were unemployed.

That’s why it makes me laugh when people on Mumsnet are slated for turning down a job. Employers do not care and will dispose of you if they have to.

Yes, they can do this. Yes, it is wrong I think, morally. But legally, I believe it is fine.

I have also withdrawn my job acceptance twice. Once because they started messing about with the conditions and I wasn't prepared to accept the job, when they kept moving th goal posts. I mean, it meant the job was totally different to the one I'd applied for, so don't even feel bad about it.

The second one I will regret till the day I die I think. I had to withdraw my acceptance because I couldn't find childcare which wasn't £££££ for my 6mo (at the time), and DH and I thought I'd be better at home for the money we would have lost. I now wish I'd sucked it up and lost the money to secure the job. But at the time, there was the danger we would pay for the childcare, I would effectively be paying to go to work and then I may have been made redundant or something anyway, as it was a small start up. Ah well.

@AlexisCarringtonColbyDexter

No its not wrong. Job offers are always conditional based on satisfactory references, DBS checks sometimes, trial periods etc etc

If the company has suffered during covid and is having to downsize what on earth do you expect them to do?- they cant magic money out of nowhere. Surely noone can find it shocking that post lockdown, many companies are laying people off or having to downsize!

Having to downsize doesn't come from nowhere though, the company must have been aware that it was on the cards and therefore not go down an expensive recruitment process. I worked in recruitment for some time and we would not recruit if we knew we were likely to have to tighten our belts imminently.

It's a conditional offer pending on reference checks. So no, your friend cannot appeal. If she had received a contract, then that would be different.

My husband went to an interview about a year or so ago. They were a start up branch of an international firm. They interviewed him, asked him to hang around a bit and then offered him the job. Said they'd send over all details tomorrow. Tomorrow came and went and nothing. A follow up call the following week they said that they were interviewing to fill other rolls and would get back to him.

This pattern continued for weeks until he gave up. a year later still haven't heard a word from them, thankfully he actually ended up being offered a better job at a better firm he really loves so it worked out for the best. But they just pulled the offer without bothering to inform him.

*roles

If there's no funding, how do you expect them to pay her salary?

Having to downsize doesn't come from nowhere though, the company must have been aware that it was on the cards and therefore not go down an expensive recruitment process. I worked in recruitment for some time and we would not recruit if we knew we were likely to have to tighten our belts imminently

Disagree. Covid came out of nowhere and its had devastating consequences for many businesses. At my business office, the people renting the office next door to us had to close last month because their sales dried up literally overnight. That was not something they could have ever predicted in February/March. This isnt an isolated case, I know MANY businesses who have been destroyed over the last three months and there was no way they could have ever predicted this would happen a few months ago....

Given that you can be dismissed for no reason in the first two years of your employment, even having a contract doesn’t make you safe. You can thank the Tories for increasing the period during which you have very few employment rights.

@SlipperyLizard

Given that you can be dismissed for no reason in the first two years of your employment, even having a contract doesn’t make you safe. You can thank the Tories for increasing the period during which you have very few employment rights.

They really are the gift that keeps on giving, aren't they?

@Gwenhwyfar

in your world, the employer is effectively saying "I can't actually get round to making a firm offer, but I want you to throw in your old job and trust me to do something I am unable to commit to."

What's the worst that can happen?

We know what it is.

It's quite common not have a contract though isn't it? Your employment is then governed by employment law I believe.

There doesn't have to be a full written contract. An unconditional offer setting out the basic terms is enough to create a contract. Your employer is required to give you a written statement within two months of starting work setting out the terms of employment in more detail.

Apologies - just noticed that I missed a sentence off the end of my last post. I said, "For someone employed less than one month that is zero" in reference to statutory notice. I meant to add that, if that applies, the courts usually award one week's pay.