14 day isolation

[Alex50]

AIBU to think 14 day isolation isn’t going to work if you don’t get paid? If you are contacted through track and trace or your child has been sent home because someone in there bubble has tested positive. How are people going to manage if they can’t work?

I don’t think self isolate will work however.

@Alex50

It’s all very well people saying you should follow the rules but if you can’t pay your rent if you’ not working, what are you supposed to do? Furlough ends in October, then with evictions starting again end of August, I don’t know what people are expected to do? Only the well off can sit at home and worry only about Covid.

This, but all people say to that is the government should magic up more money for it all. Well, they won't. Plenty of people don't qualify for SSP, UC takes 5 weeks to kick in and is not set up for stop and start and moral warm fuzzies don't keep the roof over your head, the power meter topped up or put shoes on growing children's feet.

@NotGenerationAlpha

But I never understood the going to the shop bit. I just don’t. I get groceries delivered for nearly 10 years now, and everything is easier to buy from the internet. I only go to the shops because I used to work in a town center. And even then I ordered a lot of stuff from online click and collect because they never have anything in stock.

You don't understand that some people live in rural areas where there are no supermarket/grocery deliveries?

@PamDemic

I assume many employers wont be at all sympathetic if their employee needs to take time off to self isolate. I suspect many people will be scared (justifiably or not) of losing their jobs or hours if they do take time off.

It really isn't as easy as people on this thread seem to think it is.

Really? Mine will. My DHs will. My Dad is an employer and he would. My DBs employers were when his colleague had to. I think lots of employers will be sympathetic. As I said earlier, maybe not if you’ve gone abroad, but if you’ve come into contact t whilst going about your daily business then I think lots of employers will be understanding and some people will WFH during that time. That’s why people need to ask their employers what the situation will be if the need arises and plan from there.

@PamDemic

I agree with you OP, there is an incredible lack of understanding and empathy on this thread for people's circumstances. People have to leave the house to work, for their children to go to school, to go to the shop. Lots of them won't be able to afford to self isolate. They just won't be able to afford to lose their income. There isn't an alternative for these people. It isn't as easy as saying "don't put yourself at risk". These people aren't eating out, going to pubs or going on mini breaks to Spain.

This entire thing has shown up a huge amount of hard of thinking people who are incredibly unable to conceive of anyone or anything other than their own circumstances and believe everyone's experiences mirror their's. 'I can work from home, so most people can.' 'Swab tests are a doddle for me, so they are for everyone.' 'I can order anything I need online and have it delivered, so everyone can.'

And even worse, it usually goes hand in hand with having the empathy of a starving weasel - 'If people can't afford to sit at home without them or their kids leaving whatever hovel they live in for 14 days at the drop of a hat it's because they're feckless, deserve even worse, went to Spain . . . '

Really?

Yes, really! And if you read the news, you'll also know that many, many, many employers are making people redundant and/or many people are losing their jobs, unemployment is rising, so they not only can't work from home but also aren't working at all! And are desperate to get work to pay bills, you know, that rent or mortgage to keep the roof over your head? Yeah, that one! There's been a zero hours culture rising now for oh, about 10 years, I know, really! That makes it all an employer's market, they can pick and choose among hundreds of applicants, so instead of having to pay people to sit a home every other week, never mind the myriad of jobs that cannot be done from home, they don't have to be as flexible at all - there are 10 people to every 1 job willing to do it.

And this is before the furlough scheme winds down and no-deal Brexit.

@NotGenerationAlpha

But I never understood the going to the shop bit. I just don’t. I get groceries delivered for nearly 10 years now, and everything is easier to buy from the internet. I only go to the shops because I used to work in a town center. And even then I ordered a lot of stuff from online click and collect because they never have anything in stock.

Maybe you should start to think outside of your narrow box then.

Lots of people can't afford to get food delivered. If you can only afford to spend £40 a week in ALDI then being able to get a delivery slot for Tesco or Morrisons isn't going to be much use to you. And that's if you live somewhere where you can get deliveries to start with - not everyone does.

And ordering online or doing click and collect is fine if you live near to a post office to send things back, or you can get into town to deal with the faff of returns. And again, not everyone can afford to spend money on things they'll have to return because it doesn't fit. It takes time to deal with returns and it means you go without the money for a fairly decent period of time while the return is being handled.

I'm either lucky or naive but everywhere we've been recently have asked for our T&T details and we've given them as I expect most people will. It was only when my dad mentioned that some people will give fake names so they can avoid isolating that I realised I really do assume that everyone is like we are. Sadly not 🤨

@Blobby10

The T & T system is relying on people to follow the rules and generally relying on goodwill. Unlike other countries where you could be arrested or shot if you break the quarantine rules. My sons girlfriend is Romanian, she came back here for her uni course last week and is isolating because she thinks someone is watching her. Where she comes from , they were. She had to agree to her phone being tracked and also her parents had to agree that they would tell the authorities if she left the house during her quarantine back in March. Lets just say that over there, if you say you will do something, you do it otherwise the reprisals are MUCH greater than they are here!! She can't believe how relaxed everyone is in England.

I lived in police states like this. It was fucking horrifying.

Have you actually spoken to your employer though? That’s my point, you’re making assumptions. Myself and my family have all spoken to our employers and all have been accommodating and understanding, which is why I am leaning towards employers being more understanding than you might think. Because I’ve asked.

And of course I’m aware of what is currently going on. My own job might be at risk. Which is why I am preparing for life as much as I can. We’re ALL in the same boat here, I am not rolling in money, or secure or anything. Covid has fucked many, many people over. I may yet be another statistic, we shall see. But I still believe in quarantining. Sorry that that seems to offend you.

Really? Mine will. My DHs will. My Dad is an employer and he would. My DBs employers were when his colleague had to. I think lots of employers will be sympathetic. As I said earlier, maybe not if you’ve gone abroad, but if you’ve come into contact t whilst going about your daily business then I think lots of employers will be understanding and some people will WFH during that time. That’s why people need to ask their employers what the situation will be if the need arises and plan from there.

Well, good for you, but I think you need to realise you're extremely lucky.

Someone on a zero hours contract who has to self-isolate will lose pay for two weeks and could just get their hours taken off them. Lots of industries are making people redundant left, right and centre and too many absences will lose people their jobs, even though it's through "mandatory self isolation".

And lots of people work jobs that aren't possible to be done from work - retail, hospitality, animal care, childcare, carers, anyone working for the NHS, transport workers to name a few - most of those jobs are notoriously low paid and have poor conditions as it is. And are easily replaced. If you work for ASDA and lose your job, there'll be hundreds lining up to take your place.

Even if employers are understanding, many of people can't afford to live off SSP - it's less than £100 a week. How can someone on minimum wage, with no savings, afford that kind of drop in income once, let alone regularly for the foreseeable future?

And @InDeoEstMeaFiducia one of the reasons why I believe in it is to try and prevent even MORE people from losing their jobs. Because there will be no money if we have a second lockdown. Is it nice? No, but to me it’s the lesser of two evils. If you don’t want o quarantine, that’s on you.

@vanillandhoney please read my second post. I also work in one of the jobs you listed.

ALOT of people need to plan better. ALOT of people shouldn’t be going abroad or to risky places when it’s going to cause them huge problems to self isolate.

People who are at all able to self isolate and keep their kids off school must do so, otherwise it’s just not going to work. So if it’s inconvenient or boring that’s tough. You should have to have an amazing, exceptional excuse for not doing it, and there should be clear and consistent penalties for not doing so.

We’re ALL in the same boat here

NO, we are really not. It's honestly not that hard to realise. I'm very lucky, this doesn't effect me much at all. But it doesn't take a genius to realise that it's not the same for millions of people and those ranks are growing.

No deal Brexit is going to make this all look like the huge overreaction it is, but then, we'll definitely have much more to worry about than Covid then, even more so because no one seems to realise it's coming for worry about this.

This government won't lockdown again, they have much bigger problems and they realise how much this one cost already. Might be some local ones, but again, the compliance rates will go down because the reality is, people can't afford it and will need to do whatever they can, no matter how underground, to get money and also, this virus isn't the death sentence the media makes out for the vast numbers of people who contract it.

[quote OnTheWheelOfLife]@vanillandhoney please read my second post. I also work in one of the jobs you listed.[/quote]
I have read your second post, I still think you're being incredibly naive with regards to the impact this is going have on people. I'm not "offended" by the idea of quarantine but I think it needs to be made a realistic and affordable option, otherwise it won't happen.

I mean, what about the impact of living off sick pay for half a month? Lots of people can't afford to do that. So why on earth would they keep isolating at home?

See, here we go. People just didn't plan better, they went abroad, that's just tough, they have to 'suck it up'. You're going to get fewer and fewer people able to willing to 'suck it up'.

As for penalties and enforcement, 10 years of Tory government with resultant wide-spread cuts to public services put paid to that. There aren't even enough enforcers to cover low-level crime, much less someone going to Sainsbury's 13 days after isolating.

Then don’t quarantine. Clearly nothing anyone says to you will change your mind. But what you seem to be missing is if people don’t and there is an increase again in cases or deaths and we face more lockdowns, then it will be more people who suffer.

As I said, I work in one of those jobs. My job is at risk.’yself and my employers are doing all we can to whether to prevent issues. We are planing. In my own life, I am planning. We thought DHs employer was going to go bust. We have managed to get through but we’re not stupid, we know we are at risk. But that doesn’t mean I think in should be allowed to not quarantine to prevent the potential spread to others.

I have family members who haven’t left their home since March. It’s about them too. If one of them gets it then the likelihood is that he will die. I will quarantine for him and everyone else who might not survive this. And all the businesses that could close of a second lockdown comes along and all their staff who would be out of jobs. It’s about the bigger picture.

I will quarantine if required. Myself and my employers have planned for that. What you do is up to you.

No useful advice here, sorry to jump on but how do we use those QR codes in restaurants for the track and trace? I’ve been to one restaurant and there was one on the door but I didn’t know what I had to do. Is there an app I have to download?

Then don’t quarantine. Clearly nothing anyone says to you will change your mind. But what you seem to be missing is if people don’t and there is an increase again in cases or deaths and we face more lockdowns, then it will be more people who suffer.

I've never said I won't quarantine and I'm not missing anything either! (thanks for the patronising post though!)

What YOU seem to be missing is that some people cannot afford to quarantine. Morals and saving lives doesn't come into it. They have children to feed and bills to pay and if they don't go to work their kids don't get fed.

The whole thing is a complete farce, did Boris honestly expect everyone to come back home with no symptoms?

He should of put a blanket ban on overseas holidays for the foreseeable future which then would of prevented this.

Quarantined after arriving back from abroad already.

But like vanilla, it's not hard to realise plenty of people cannot afford to (and not because they went abroad or to pubs or just didn't plan).

@WiltedWillows

The whole thing is a complete farce, did Boris honestly expect everyone to come back home with no symptoms?

He should of put a blanket ban on overseas holidays for the foreseeable future which then would of prevented this.

People travel overseas for many reasons besides holidays. Do you really want to live in a place where you are not allowed to leave under any reason the government gives? Because if you go down that road, having believed it's to keep you 'safe', it's a really nasty path.

@vanillandhoneyi live in a place which is not very financially well off and relies on tourists. We need the integer to get through this. If there is a second lockdown then most people round here won’t survive. They will lose their jobs, their income, everything.

You really don’t need to try and lecture me on what it means to not have enough money. Because my community will have zero if people continue to put others at risk. And I’m only patronising you because you’re being rude. Sorry, YOU are being rude.

Anyway, good luck to you. Fingers crossed you won’t need to quarantine. Good night.

You really don’t need to try and lecture me on what it means to not have enough money. Because my community will have zero if people continue to put others at risk. And I’m only patronising you because you’re being rude. Sorry, YOU are being rude.

I'm not really bothered if you think I'm rude. I'm saying it how it is.

I also live in a tourist area. I know people whose businesses have folded because they were forced to shield or isolate and they didn't get a penny of support from the government. People have lost their homes, their businesses - the lot.

So, frankly, you going on about future lockdowns is totally irrelevant to the people who cannot afford to isolate once, let alone on multiple occasions. It's nothing to do with not wanting to. Nothing to do with not caring about others. Nothing to do with not caring about future lockdowns.

People live in the here and now. They go pay check to paycheck. They have no savings because they barely earn enough to make ends meet, let alone put some aside for the future. If they don't work, they don't eat. Their children don't get fed. They can't top up the electric meter or fill up the car.

You clearly can afford to take two weeks off work at a moment's notice. Millions of families aren't in such a fortunate position.