nephew constantly hitting my DD

[canyouhelpp]

I have been reading mumsnet posts for awhile but this is my first thread as i would really appreciate some advice

my DD is four and so is my husbands nephew (his brothers son) they love playing together and see each other often approximately once a week at my in laws house
my nephew has a bad habit of hitting and often hits my DD if I or my sil don't intervene quick enough. Now I understand children do sometimes fight but this is all the time and I always feel so sad and upset for my DD. my sil does tell him off but there are not many consequences and she has told me she is quite sensitive and doesn't want anyone else to tell him off. Today I saw him run and attack my DD by pulling her hair and shaking her before I managed to pull him off her, I was very shaken as was my daughter, my sil took him out the room but when she came back I heard her telling my mil that it's not fair that her son is labelled as naughty as my other niece used to hit him (rarely) when he was younger and she wouldnt be told off by anyone (when in fact she did) I feel she always deflects his bad behaviour on to my niece who used to sometimes hit him (two years ago) and not acknowledge that his behaviour is not acceptable and she is only enabling him by defending his actions
I have told my husband that enough is enough, why do we take our DD there knowing she will be hurt just to keep the family happy
AIBU? what would you do in my situation

Strange behaviour for a 4 year old, as it's very toddler-like and he ought to have grown out of that by now.
There has to be consequences. The obvious one, as far as I can see, is that the child should be taken home each time he hits. Every single time.
This is the only way he'll learn.
Not exactly up to you to implement this, which is annoying for you. But could it be suggested to his mum?

You are not a terrible mum at all. But, this feeling is also how your SIL feels when her son's behaviour is criticized ( for right or wrong, we are all sensitive about our children).

These things happen all the time with small children, who should both be treated with compassion. There is not a victim and abuser here, there are two four year old children.

Don’t teach her to hit back

He’ll be off to school soon and someone somewhere will tell their child to hit back, and make it count. He won’t get away with it from other children.

It’s up to your SIL/BIL to teach her child it’s unacceptable, if she won’t then someone else will.

We had the same situation last year with a 3 year old and a 1 year old. I stopped taking DS round for a year but still kept in touch and kept conversation light. We tried again a year later (2 year old and 4 year old) and they got on so much better, they were best friends! I’d say take a break from the visits but not in a dramatic way and see how they are after a few months.

Why should your daughter be his punchbag because SIL doesn’t like him criticised?
Can no one in your family see how wrong this is?By not doing anything you are only teaching your DD to be compliant and not make a fuss.
Make a fuss!!
The first poster nailed it for me - set your stall out and say there’s to be no hitting or else you can’t play nephew - and mean it.

Can't work out if this is your DH Sis or SIL

Sounds like her feelings over this are being put infront of the fact your Dd is being hurt

The simple answer is to have a kind conversation, prob with her husband. You know that they are only children, but you DD keeps being hurt. I know SIL is upset about this but that is no reason to let it happen and it won't happen. If they won't supervise their son and stop him then it means u will have to.

When the incident happens you guys Completely ignore him and Give attention to your daughter. He’s possibly doing it for attention. Your sil can speak to him about it after a bit. But initially the attention should be given to the victim .

@Mellonsprite
I do think other people in the family can see it and have expressed their frustration to me privately as he also has a habit of damaging things in the house throwing things around that could harm others in the room and not to mention the constant hitting of his little sister. my sil will sometimes try to minimise that my DD has been hit saying atleast it's just once a week for her whereas its daily for his younger sister to the point she doesn't even give much of a reaction to it anymore as she is so used it it. my sil says it's because she has toughened up although she does feel really bad for her.
I am going to speak to my mil today and explain that it's not so much the hitting that is an issue but more of how it is dealt with, no consequences and a light telling off and over the past two years his behaviour has gotten steadily worse. They do have times where they play nicely together and he can be so lovely but the moment something doesn't go his way it goes totally downhill from there for the rest of the stay
just to list a few things I have seen him doing in the past year
take a mug from the kitchen and chase another child to hit him with it
hit his mother whenever she tries to stop him from misbehaving
run and jump on to his little sister which I managed to block or could have caused alot of damage
bite his baby sisters fingers when he thinks nobody is looking
I don't know how much of this is normal for a child aged 3/4 but my sil will say it is because he is a boy and I can't understand as I have a girl

It’s not normal at all. Kids do fight and have the odd spat, but daily hitting and biting absolutely not. And I have boys.

Saying boys will be boys is an excuse made up by feckless parents.

just to add I come from a culture where family is a very big thing and to stop taking my DD there with the rest of the family would not be taken so lightly

That's irrelevant, stop putting your dd in a situation where she's being assaulted. You can't change your sil's parenting but you need to step up as a parent yourself and protect your dd, that's your job. Who carea is some adults are offended, your dd should be your priority. I would stop taking her round and just tell your relatives visits will resume when dn learns to keep his hands to himself. I've had to do similar, all adult relationships survived just fine.

Ugh, sounds like my SIL. She is one of those 'gentle parents' who 'doesnt believe in saying no'. Her DS was awful to my DS as nearly two years his junior. She beyond hates anyone criticising him or telling him off.

She doesnt like me very much because I do not care and I do tell him off when it impacts my DS.

The end result is we have largely stopped seeing them. SIL is golden child so MIL is useless. She now wonders why DS is so close to his cousins and aunties on my side... .

She has realised that she needs to discipline him, though she still hates anyone else doing it. He is off to school this year and I do not think it is going to go well to be honest. He still behaves like a 2 year old. No issues before anyone asks.

To echo others, I would limit their time together if you dont feel comfortable telling him off. Visit when you know they wont be there.

What worries me is that your nephew is learning that he isn't allowed to be told off by anyone but mum - and he's probably picking up mum is starting to get boated with it.

So there's absolutely no reason for him to stop. In fact it may encourage the behaviour further if he feels he gets something out of it.

My ds is quiet and passive and I made the mistake of falling into the trap of not defending him enough. Mostly because when he did try and stop it (not giving up toys etc) the other child was so loud and vocal they managed to make it look like ds was bad.
It then switched to the parents waiting to pounce the minute my ds did something wrong as some kind of proof they all did it. Well he's no angel so him being naughty never surprised me - i just dealt with it. But properly!

You have choices here.

Refuse to go again and suggest perhaps when they are older and nephew has grown out of his hitting stage.

I like the idea above if chatting to nephew before hand.

Keep dd occupied with other stuff whilst there. You and DH play with her and if asked say she doesn't want to play with nephew because he hurts her.

Tell him off and ignore if it pisses other adults off (this one is probably the riskiest in ruining relations)

Take dd away every time and give her loads of praise and attention for her good behaviour and hope nephew learns to copy that for the praise himself.

Doesn't sound easy and I wish you luck

@BluebellsGreenbells yes I have other nephews from my side of the family who play with my DD and although they may have occasional snatching/light hitting nothing as aggressive or as constant as this

I agree with other PPs

You've tried
He's rather aggressive when he hits out
Your DD is getting hurt
So stop taking DD round when DNephew is there and if he arrives
Stop letting them play together on their own
Stay with DD at all times get down and play with her on the floor, follow her around, when in that house so that you are physically there if anything even slightly starts to happen
Pick her up and take her with you the moment he looks aggy, there is no cup of tea chatting with PILs that is more important than your DD
Go home early when you feel he's getting frustrated or acting out

It'll only be for couple years max as he'll be at school next year and behavioural problems will come to light if it isn't a phase he's going through

My nephew can be a little too rough with my DD sometimes (as can she) but I tell her off massively and my brother and SIL are way too soft....so I just tell him myself but less bluntly than my own DD. They accept that I do and if they questioned me on it I would be open about why I tell him off (ie they don't). I'm very confident though and don't mind ruffling feathers with my family!

I had a similiar situation with an older DSS of SIL, SIL lived with MIL.
I did all of that (in my previous comment) and I even took brunt of his hitting and bashing (when pregnant with DD3) when "he went for" my DD as I scooped her up

My DS (DDs older brother) shouted at him and shoved him back a few times with a "No don't hit! She's little!" (So sibling power is great of you had an older DC too!!) I have to confess he even got a bash in a couple times that shocked DSS and I found hard to tell him off for 😆

But ultimately I went home many times before dinner was dishes up and stopped putting ourselves in that situation for long. We stayed long enough to say hi and see each other briefly at relatives houses but I left saying 'it's not safe for the DCs so we will see you another time" My MIL learnt not to invite at same time (DSS didn't live there he lived with his mum) or to come to us without DSS iin tow for about 18 months. DSS calmed down over the years, was ultimately given an ADHD diagnosis at school at some point, but ii can't recall if that was before or after SIL split with her DP

Tell her to hit him back and teach her to defend herself from bullying , telling people does not work

I have a friend who was a bit like this with her son's behaviour. Because it was a just a response to her parenting behaviour - rushing to comfort him when I ducked when he went to hit me on the back of the head with a hard plastic toy. This frustrated him because he only managed to hit me on the shoulder, not on the back of the head so he burst into tears of rage. She had asked me to sit on the floor, because he didn't like it when adults sat on chairs. Two things happened to improve his behaviour. the first was that she had another baby, so there was then someone she had to protect with a more definite action than saying "it makes mummy sad when you do that". The second was starting school. I think the "too strict" reception class teacher did a good job there! So there is every chance that your sister in law's behaviour will not prevent your nephew from growing up into a decent human being, especially if he is not seeing bullying behaviour modelled in the family, and I don't see anything in your post to suggest he does.
Now for you daughter, and for your niece:
It's important so far as possible that your daughter know that it's not Ok for her cousin or anyone lese to hit her and that your SIL' failure to take action or allow anyone else to do so is a failure on the part of your sister in law and not because your daughter is some how less or deserves it. It is really, really important that your daughter understands this before she starts school. Starting school already knowing that it's Ok for other people to hit or be nasty you, because their mummies won't sanction them and will just say "it's just children - or in this case "it's just girls" meant that I started school with "victim" written" invisibly all over my face" which lead to "bullying by the many" which teachers find hard to sanction. My mother did apparently voice to her friends that she wasn't happy with the standard of behaviour they were allowing towards me. I just wish I'd knwn before I started school that it really wasn't OK and I wasn't a second class person who deserved to be ebadly. If you have to, maybe say to your daughter that your nephew doesn't behave well and that you think that daughter's auntie is being very unfair on daughter by letting him get away with it. You can say "it's probably be cause she's not sure what to do" to make it plain that this isn't because auntie hates daughter. You might find that that your daughter already thinks this but needs a bit of reassurance before she will voice those fears.
You can't alter your sister in law's behaviour to your nephew. could you alter your sister in laws behaviour to your daughter and niece? If your nephew hits your daughter, could you ask that he - and if she insists on joining him! SIL go for time out to another room away from the rest of the family - his sanction is that he doesn't get to play with your daughter.
If not, at the first incident of aggression, can you have a plan where at the first aggression towards either daughter or niece, you, daughter, husband and ideally niece and BIL or SIL and PIL too all go off somewhere else to do something else nice, leaving nephew and one parent to look after him behind for a short time, maybe half an hour. could be tricky for you all to go if there is a meal cooking. Clue Dd into this first, as well as PIL, if this is a strategy you and DH have agreed on. maybe sure Niece and Daughter have a nice time so they can see it is not a sanction against them. If the other's won't play ball with this, could maybe you, DH and daughter just leave again, making sure that nephew and SIL know that you are now going off to do {something daughter enjoys and that Nephew would do too, ideally) and obviously make sure it is something you can do and do do with her! These are just suggestions that may help your daughter to realise that the fault is not hers.

The fact that he seems to not do it with your Dh there suggests to me that there are most probably no underlying issues

my DD is very soft in nature and will not hit back

Just an aside, and not blaming your daughter at all as the boy sounds a horror. But have you considered martial arts classes? This is not to teach her to hit back (although she’ll learn how to 😈) but more to teach her confidence, assertiveness and how to deal with these situations.

I’m totally in love with the little ones at my classes, they rock and they ooze self worth 😊

I could have written this accept my dd was younger when my nephew was being naughty. My bil had said only he had the right to tell his kid off but frankly I didn't care and told him off anyway. Sil would get annoyed but I would rather that than my dd get hurt. What annoyed me the most was that I would get told boys are like that but my dd was overly sensitive. She wasn't, who likes having their hair pulled or being whacked in the face? I didn't appreciate the fact that they just accepted my girl to put up with nephew's naughty behaviour. I did once say to nephew that if he hit my dd I would hit him and that put a stop to his poor behaviour very quickly because his mum started watching him more carefully and removing him from the room. For the record I wouldn't have hit him but he was a poorly behaved child when younger, he is now 6 and a lot better behaved.

Ask SIL if she will be willing to apologise to your daughter and her daughter in front of the rest of the family for not standing up for them and protecting them and trying to prevent others from doing so. and of course give her all the help you can if she decides she is going to try to change her ways and stop her cruelty to her daughter and yours.

Tell sister in law every time her son is physical with your child, you'll do the same to her.

See how she likes it and how long it takes her to change his behaviour.

I would absolutely do this. No one hurts my children. Ever.

Tell sister in law every time her son is physical with your child, you'll do the same to her

You, as a grown adult who presumably knows about criminal responsibility, would copy the behaviour of a poorly disciplined four year old?

Would you chuff

@kierenthecommunity

my DD is very soft in nature and will not hit back

Just an aside, and not blaming your daughter at all as the boy sounds a horror. But have you considered martial arts classes? This is not to teach her to hit back (although she’ll learn how to 😈) but more to teach her confidence, assertiveness and how to deal with these situations.

I’m totally in love with the little ones at my classes, they rock and they ooze self worth 😊

I'm 100% on board with this. I'm in my 60s and for unusual reasons too lengthy to go into, started Judo when I was 8! The confidence it gave me has lasted all my life.

And it's totally and completely wrong to encourage violent and aggressive behaviour in children of course, but actually it would be very handy if your daughter were to accidentally thump him back every single time, but harder. I guarantee that his behaviour would improve quickly. If that isn't possible, then sorry but I'd ban him from playing with my child, regardless of SILs opinion. And I'd tell her why. She is pandering to him and encouraging his behaviour. One of these days, if it isn't your daughter, he's going to come across a kid who will beat the shit out of him. And that's on her. Because one day he's going to come across some kid who doesn't think they have to accept the blows, and maybe their parent won't intervene either!