SIL - how do I manage her?

[Showers3]

This actually isn’t a AIBU, so sorry that it may be on the wrong board, but I’d really value some advice and support...

I’ve always had a strained relationship with my (female heavy) ILs, whereby I’ve often felt rejected and excluded by them, with the exception of my FIL, who has always been very kind to me. For the sake of my DH, however, and particularly for the sake of my DC, I have kept on making an effort with them over the years and now have an ok-ish relationship with most them, which I feel proud of for the sake of those I love the most.

One clear exception to this though is one of my SILs - think narcissistic PD and that would be about accurate! In my opinion (and I think in the opinion of most family members actually), she is someone who can be very unkind, mean and spiteful at times. (The worst occasions of this were in the run up to our wedding and during my DCs christenings, whereby she caused several issues that were very upsetting and hurtful and which I and many others still remember painfully years on). She is someone who likes to be admired and appears to secretly take pleasure in other people’s downfalls. For example, she enjoys being a martyr to family members when they fall on hard times, but as soon as they are back on their feet, she seems to hate this and becomes unkind towards them again. My personal experience of her is that she acts as though she is humouring me in conversation, but is actually looking down on me and will enjoy bitching about me and belittling me to anyone who will listen as soon as my back is turned. This makes me feel like shit. I feel like she goes out of her way to make me in particular feel incredibly stupid when I’m with her by how she talks to and treats me in front of others (I’m actually a dr, so whilst I might not be Einstein, I do have some level of intelligence and don’t normally feel so rubbish about myself). To be honest, my sense is that she’s only ever nice to me when no one else is wanting to speak to her or if it would make someone else who she looks down on feel excluded by talking to me and leaving them out.

Anyhow, this has been going on for near on 20 years and I really feel that for my own mental health, I need to stop this affecting me the way it does. Going no contact really isn’t an option and I’m getting much better about not feeling nervous before seeing her, but I just don’t know how to be around her to protect myself emotionally without causing a scene. I’m normally my own worst enemy, as I start out every meeting being super nice to her only to have this played out, or by sending her nice texts between meetings, only for her to briefly reply and then ignore me or not reply at all. I feel like I’m coming across as desperate. In an ideal world, I’d have a good sisterly relationship with her, but she obviously does not want this, so what do I do?! TIA!

why can't you go low contact with her if the situation is that bad ? this is for your mental wellbeing it's not about what your family or anyone else thinks.

Just be courteous, no need to waste energy trying to please her as it’s getting you nowhere. Don’t go out of your way to be nice. I’ve stopped trying to converse with a relation who made me feel uncomfortable in conversation. I now reply to direct questions in a vague way and start talking to someone else as soon as is polite. If you are polite and just get on with it no one can accuse you of spoiling family relations. The more she pushes conversations or makes snide remarks and you don’t respond the more in control I feel and the more people notice I’m not the “instigator”

Just mirror her actions /tone etc back at her and stop with the texts between meet ups etc. Avoid her where possible and stop trying so hard with her, she'll pick up on this change of course so be prepared for a reaction from her.

Thank you for taking the time to reply - all good ideas, thank you 😊

It sounds as though you feel guilty about upsetting the family apple cart and that you’re pussy footing around to keep the piece.
You’ve had twenty years of this and it looks like you’ve had enough.
Does your partner know about how you feel?
For your own well-being it does sound as though it would be be better to go low contact with her.
Don’t initiate contact with her . Let her come to you and then be matter of fact , albeit in a friendly way, with her.

It sounds like others know what she’s like already.
Just be pleasant and distant. If she ever mentions that you’ve been quiet just remind her that, in your position, you are tremendously busy and have a large workload( which we all know you have already.)
She sounds like a shitty cow that needs to learn that she is not at the centre of the universe.

All good wishes to you OP.

Go low contact as pp have said. Don’t text her, don’t seek her out to speak to her.
I’ve had experience of similar people and I find they treat those who make and effort with them badly, and those who don’t make an effort with them, really well. Often seeking them out.
It’s a weird dynamic. She might be like that but regardless, protect your own feelings and sense of worth by just keeping her at arms length now.

You will never change her, only your reaction to her. Some good advice on this thread. You've tried being kind and forgiving and building a relationship, which is praiseworthy but she simply doesn't share your values. Her behaviour sounds really awful, and its bringing you down and you are right, after trying to hard for so long to decide enough is enough. She is a complete bully and knows exactly how to make you feel bad. You should feel sorry for her if that's her main pleasure in life and I bet she's done this to others. I think you should tell your DH exactly how you feel and insist that he does more to make you feel supported and you see less of her if possible and give her the barest minimal attention when you do.

So I don’t have any advice- but I am in a similar situation. Not identical- but similar features. In particular, she just clearly thinks I’m a simpleton (and I have three post-grad qualifications.....so am not). Several things I have decided I’m going to do (but haven’t actually done yet):

1. I’m going to stop being so needy. I’m going to mirror her conversations with me- so, no, I’m not going to try and chat away as normal, but am going to behave as she does. I will also be the same with text messages.

1. I have recently noticed the same thing you’ve noticed, about others. Erm....in a way I’ve been people-pleasing and a bit self-obsessed in regards to her for the past two decades. But of late I think I’ve realised that she’s similar with others too. I’m going to pay more attention to this.

1. I’m going to be flippin’ successful in my career. I’ve achieved something recently, which is linked to her career- and I won awards for it. It’s not exactly the same as she does, but is linked. I’m going to do more of it, and I’m going to enjoy it. I honestly think she’s really pissed off about my success, and is also really surprised that somebody as stupid as me could possibly have managed something like that. Ha ha. Sweet revenge will spur me on to do it more.

Good luck, and I’ll be watching this thread to see what others suggest. Solidarity!

Thank you. You’re right - I’ve always lived in the hope that one day, things might be different, but I finally have to wake up to the fact that they won’t. She’ll never want a close relationship with me. I’m painfully aware that I’m an especially sensitive person and a ‘people pleaser’ (so she really taps into all my insecurities!) but I know this isn’t all my issue as others experience her in the same way.

Thank you all again for your kind words and sage advice. Letting go, reducing contact and hoping for basic civility seems the way to go.

(For those who have asked, my DH agrees with me and finds her the same, but in the main, she is definitely nicer to him, so I don’t think he completely gets how awful it feels to be in my shoes).

Just saw your response Curious Horse. I’m sorry you’re going through this too! 💐

I think your pointers are great and am particularly interested in the third one. I have occasionally wondered at times if some envy might play into this, not just around my career, but also my solid relationship with the only boy in their family, bar their father...?

She clearly doesn't like you OP, why are you even bothering? The problem is clearly with her, not you.

Don't have any contact with her outside of the essentials. No text messages, no making a point of speaking to her. If she engages you in conversation, keep it to yes or no answers. Don't give her fuel for her fire.

You definitely need to care less. Easier said than done I know. I come from a perspective where I really don't care what people care about me but I've always been like that so I'm not sure how it can be learnt.
But I don't think you should go out of your way to be nice to her, definitely don't contact her or make any more effort for her in any situation where she isn't doing the same to you.
Trying so hard isnt having any effect and isnt making you happy

I have similar issues with husbands family. I have had to go low contact as I don't understand them at all so not going to bother wasting time with them. Try and reduce all contact, texting etc she knows what she's doing and is loving getting a reaction. For what it's worth you sound such a decent, lovely person so perhaps she's just jealous of that!

The advice on this thread is good. Be courteous, but put absolute minimum time and effort into her. It's not exactly the same but my in-laws were tricky. I remember feeling hurt one Christmas when I'd gone to a lot of trouble with gifts and in return received a tiny little decorative swan with three bath beads in it. They explained they set a challenge not to spend more than £2 on anyone's gift. Which is fine - if they'd shared that plan with us!

If you stop putting yourself out so much, then you will be less hurt. Though it was never perfect, in the end it was fine with my ILs partly because I just wasn't that emotionally invested in them, but at the same time we could get together quite happily because there had never been a big blow up.

OP you sound like a lovely, sensitive person and it's important that you look after yourself. She sounds like a bit of a bully - but she won't get much pleasure from that if she sees you aren't interested. Take care!

Don't engage her at all. The moment she is unpleasant say "look sil, I have no intention of listening to you, you are unpleasant, it is not necessary so I am happy to speak to you if you can maintain a civil tongue, if not I will be ignoring you" and then ignore anything she says unless it is polite, literally as if she is not there.

And direct your husband to deal with her.

I get on well with my SILs but I don’t have a close relationship with any of them. I don’t generally message them, we just chat when we see each other at family events. It sounds like you want a close sisterly relationship with her but if you pulled back and just made polite conversation when you saw her, then that’s totally acceptable for a SIL relationship IMO.

Just stop being nice to her. Simple.
She's a cow because she knows she can get away with it.
She's probably envious of you in some way. Just stop trying and dont give her the headspace.

OP, it doesn't really matter why she isn't nice to you. After so many years I wouldn't bother even trying to understand why.
I understand you don't want to go no contact and there is no need for a drama.
Just stop trying so hard to be nice, it doesn't matter what she thinks of you. Switch to polite instead of nice. Talk about the weather rather than personal things when you have to be around her.

When it comes down to it you are never going to have a sister relationship. More of a friendly relationship you have with a colleague that you dislike. Keep that smile on your face and stay positive. If the conversation makes you uncomfortable maybe excuse yourself to go to the toilet or get a drink. Keep real actions friendly without any substance. Don’t tell her anything personal and make your life seem boring. She may move on to bother someone else

Christ, after 20 years of that I'd just have to start being painfully honest as I'd have run out if patience. Anything She did or said that I perceived as her behaving badly towards me I'd just say something like "yes, I get it, you don't like me, just give it a rest for now love".

Then again, I'm not very tactful in these days kinds of situations. Maybe don't take my advice...

This isn’t personal. You just happen to be the target. It would be the same for any woman your dh had married. And it would be the same for the next woman if for some reason your dh met someone else. It’s because the issue is with her, not you. You’ve possibly spent a great deal of time trying to get her to like you and appease her. Unfortunately the nicer you are and the more you try, the more you will turn her off from you. The only person’s behaviour you change is your own and the advice above of how to do that is very good.

Remember, what your SIL thinks really doesn’t matter. Your SIL is the one with “issues” and is why she mist probably behaves as she does.

Lots of great advice, I’d just add if she wants to talk at an event - make sure you ask the questions and open questions, she’ll need to answer - let he answer a few and then pop to the loo or jyst move on. By focusing on her it helps prevent her making you feel to much judgement of yourself. As she’s self obsessed she’ll love talking about herself

@TitsOutForHarambe

Christ, after 20 years of that I'd just have to start being painfully honest as I'd have run out if patience. Anything She did or said that I perceived as her behaving badly towards me I'd just say something like "yes, I get it, you don't like me, just give it a rest for now love".

Then again, I'm not very tactful in these days kinds of situations. Maybe don't take my advice...

My SIL sounds very similar to yours. When I first met DH I actually found it a really odd family dynamic, where everyone would fall over themselves constantly to keep her happy. I actually remember an occasion mid-dinner one time where she decided she wasn't happy with where everyone was sitting, so they all got up and bloody moved! She then started to make targeted comments at me and literally no one would say a word to correct her, they'd just look away or change the subject then apologise to me later. Well... that approach didn't really work for me. So once I'd given her a sufficient amount of time to warm to me and she still behaved like a brat, I started to call her out on it directly. She was furious about it for a while and obviously hates me to this day, but on the surface she's far more respectful these days when we're forced to be in the same place at the same time for family gatherings etc.

If your instinct is to please people it'll be hard, but it sounds like this is one woman you'll never please and it's nothing you can change, so make your peace with it and keep contact to a minimum.

Grey Rock technique + vague smile.

I started doing this years ago with SIL, the grumpiest woman on the planet. I couldn’t cut contact, and I wasn’t prepared to keep offering the services of interest in her life, generosity of my time, energy getting together or the 100 other polite gestures I’d offered for a decade.

To give you an idea, one Xmas my sunny 3yo ran to her to give her Aunty a hug and lisped ‘Merry Xmas’ to her with a big smile. SIL held her at arms length, scowled at her and said ‘Who says it is?’.

Now I just address anything she says directly to me with a vague smile and a distant unfocused gaze. I often say ‘Pardon? Didn’t quite catch that?’ and she gets the hump and abandons whatever she was trying to tell me. So I know I’ll only have to do it once or twice every event. I basically don’t care if she thinks I’ve got dementia. She’ll bitch about me whatever I do, so less ammunition from me the better. I can easily find 15 better conversations to be in, so I do.

My behaviour is exemplary in her company, I’m not giving her any excuse for an argument or prolonged discussion. Her reaction has been interesting. She seems to miss the ‘services’ I used to offer. I’m guessing I was already one on a very short list of humans who gave a shiny shit about her. Now there’s one less, bad luck lady.

Fundamentally, her reaction is of no consequence. My mental health is far better, and I’ve taken my power back. No points in being a doormat in life, I’ve realised. I’ll offer my love to people who recognise it and- shock horror- sometimes even return it! I recommend Grey Rock. Be aware it can drive people crazy. Not always a bad thing.

Sod her OP, just because she’s your sil doesn’t mean you have to get along and be buddies. Delete her number, why do you need it? She’s not a friend 🤷‍♀️

Echoing what others have said - be polite at family gatherings but then walk off to talk to someone else/go for a wee 😂

If she asks why you’re quiet/not been in touch just say ‘a lot going on /busy’ then walk off

Don’t waste your time,l am baffled you have for so long. Dont waste our thoughts on her.