Universities should honour all offers and ignore flawed A-level grades

[Notusuallyshocked]

Worcester College, Oxford, are treating this year's A-level results with the scepticism they deserve...

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-oxfordshire-53780498?intlink_from_url=&link_location=live-reporting-story

They've said they will honour all offers regardless of A level grades.

AIBU to think all universities should do the same?

Especially now the algorithm determining A-level grades has been shown to be unfair:

www.theguardian.com/education/2020/aug/14/do-the-maths-why-englands-a-level-grading-system-is-unfair

Since the results have only a tenuous link with an individual student's ability/performance, no individual student should miss out on their university place due to this complete mess.

@BigChocFrenzy

"The government specifically implemented these fines for this year."

Then they fucked up - yet again - and need to U turn

The least bad option is to accept the teachers' CAGs and allow the Unis to take all the students they can handle

They won't. One of the reasons this cap was implemented was to stop a handful of universities massively over recruiting at the detriment of other universities. Without the cap a large number of universities would close which would be hugely detrimental to the sector.

A-Level results 2020: How have grades been calculated?

Worked real example for an anonymous school, unspecified subject, with reference to data specification links

A student can receive a "U" even if no previous cohort at the school did,

just because the algorithm has to fit the number of students in the defined ranking into the allowed % of "A', "B" etc
and can end up with nothing left to allocate except that "U"

https://ffteducationdatalab.org.uk/2020/08/a-level-results-2020-how-have-grades-been-calculated/

"One of the reasons this cap was implemented was to stop a handful of universities massively over recruiting at the detriment of other universities. Without the cap a large number of universities would close which would be hugely detrimental to the sector."

Then adjust the caps so that each uni gets sufficient students

Ruining the future for tens of thousands of students is NOT an acceptable option

The affected parents and students - who will all soon be able to vote - will never forgive this
The government should remember how the LibDems have been hammered for years over student fees
(which caused debt, but did not actually remove the option of Uni)

Then adjust the caps so that each uni gets sufficient students

That's the purpose of the cap. Universities can recruit an additional 5%. It's individual to each institution.

Anything above 5% then they'll get fined.

Plus social distancing and staffing issues make it very difficult to just take everyone!

Saying "we've fucked up your future, but don't know what else to do, so move on"
will have permanent electoral consequences for the conservative party

They need to U-turn, even if only to stay electable after their current over-65+ bedrock vote are no longer around
They are motivated to make it work and change the 5% cap

Well, I guess they could make good on the offers.

If University now is anything like when I went in 1990, 40% of a course will be gone by the end of the first year. We had to do end of first year exams and if you failed, you were out, so that weeded out the ones highly unlikely to complete the course and pass.

These students are of the age group at hardly any risk from COVID:
they just want to go to uni, or their apprenticeship, or whatever other plans they had

It is still fixable, if those in charge get their heads out of their arses

If not, why the hell should students pay any further attention to SD rules
Consideration for others has to go both ways

Indecision at present is the worst thing of all. Not knowing whether an appeal will be successful, whether or not a similar decision as happened in Scotland will happen in England, or something else.

Worcester College's decision should be applauded.

@BigChocFrenzy

Saying "we've fucked up your future, but don't know what else to do, so move on" will have permanent electoral consequences for the conservative party

They need to U-turn, even if only to stay electable after their current over-65+ bedrock vote are no longer around
They are motivated to make it work and change the 5% cap

The 5% cap really isn't the issue here.

Most universities don't have the capacity to take huge amounts of additional students. Especially this year..... voluntary severance schemes and reduced teaching spaces make it impossible

@PhilCornwall1

Well, I guess they could make good on the offers.

If University now is anything like when I went in 1990, 40% of a course will be gone by the end of the first year. We had to do end of first year exams and if you failed, you were out, so that weeded out the ones highly unlikely to complete the course and pass.

It's really not like that anymore. If I lost 40% of my students I'd be sacked.

@BigChocFrenzy

These students are of the age group at hardly any risk from COVID: they just want to go to uni, or their apprenticeship, or whatever other plans they had

It is still fixable, if those in charge get their heads out of their arses

If not, why the hell should students pay any further attention to SD rules
Consideration for others has to go both ways

You do realise that not all students at university are 18? I have students in their 50s

What about staff?

Let those Unis who can, take the exytra students

This sounds like yet anothe plea from staff wanting to keep down student numbers for their own benefit

If I were a student or parent in the UK, I'd be organising mass marches of "No places, non SD"

A mass rebellion by the young to abandon SD until they get some consideration and justice from the middle-aged and elderly who run the country

Students can assess their own risk
I see now the objections are yet again from people who are frightened about COVID, trying to keep down numbers

So I don't trust the claims that it is not possible to take the CAGs

It's not just uni places; it's students taking other kinds of courses, apprenticeships,
For some, these will be the only qualifications they take before entering the workplace

@BigChocFrenzy

Let those Unis who can, take the exytra students

This sounds like yet anothe plea from staff wanting to keep down student numbers for their own benefit

If I were a student or parent in the UK, I'd be organising mass marches of "No places, non SD"

A mass rebellion by the young to abandon SD until they get some consideration and justice from the middle-aged and elderly who run the country

I don't want to keep numbers down at all. We are actively recruiting at my university. However, our resources are not infinite so it's a huge balancing act. Believe it or not most of us have the students best interests at heart.

We know our sector and we know what is practical.

@BigChocFrenzy

These students are of the age group at hardly any risk from COVID: they just want to go to uni, or their apprenticeship, or whatever other plans they had

It is still fixable, if those in charge get their heads out of their arses

If not, why the hell should students pay any further attention to SD rules
Consideration for others has to go both ways

So you think cramming 100s of students in a lecture theatre with no SD at all is perfectly acceptable because most of them won't get CV badly?

Ignoring the fact that the lecturers will be considerably older, that those students will still spread it when they go to Lidl, Weatherspoons, the library, health centre, party in the next block? And spend to even more people so they in turn can spread to? Really? That's ok is it?

It doesn't bloody matter what age group they're in FFS.

@BigChocFrenzy

Students can assess their own risk I see now the objections are yet again from people who are frightened about COVID, trying to keep down numbers

So I don't trust the claims that it is not possible to take the CAGs

It's not just uni places; it's students taking other kinds of courses, apprenticeships,
For some, these will be the only qualifications they take before entering the workplace

I'm not frightened of COVID but as a university we have to follow government guidelines. I'm gutted that I can't have my usual large groups all in one room but that's not my decision. You're sounding a little ridiculous now.

How about trusting the people who actually work in the sector to best know how to deal with this.

Mind you think is MN. Everyone's a fucking expert. Despite their lack of knowledge.

@titchy

How about trusting the people who actually work in the sector to best know how to deal with this.

Exactly this!

I know I shouldn't bite ( but I always do).

Wear masks, do online teaching where possible

The vaccination may be rolled out before the first academic year ends

It is unacceptable to ruin so many young lives, for a tiny initial risk to them, that almost all would choose to take

• It's really not like that anymore. If I lost 40% of my students I'd be sacked.*

Very different times now then. I will never forget the opening speech made by the Head of Faculty. Her opening line was "Welcome to all of you for what is the start of your University career. This faculty expects good results and students who are prepared to work. If you are not prepared to do this, you career at this University will be a short one."

Well, I guess you could say she put her cards on the table.

@titchy

How about trusting the people who actually work in the sector to best know how to deal with this.

... Not when they are thinking of their own interests

This issue is pivotal

This could be when consent for mass SD and masks ends in the UK
Think very carefully before you ruin so many young lives who have already sacrificed so much

I largely agree OP and said this on another thread - especially Oxbridge where they interview and/or have entrance exams. And other universities have entrance tests for courses like law and medicine. They've made offers on the basis of potential - given the obvious problems with grades this year, just give the kids the places. If they've overoffered, then clearly you have to cut off somewhere, but if eg the offer was AAB and they got BBB give them the place. If they got EEE it's a harder one to call but with the bell curve nonsense (ie if someone from your school got an E last year, someone has to get one this year even if everyone was clever enough to get a B), they really need to do a bit of digging before saying no. They have the teacher predictions so use those if someone has come in way under prediction.

@BigChocFrenzy

Wear masks, do online teaching where possible

The vaccination may be rolled out before the first academic year ends

It is unacceptable to ruin so many young lives, for a tiny initial risk to them, that almost all would choose to take

We're already doing this. However, we still need to do some in person teaching and we need to have social distancing measures in place. I usually teach in a room that fits 75 people in. That will now have 30....meaning I've already doubled my teaching time as I'm having to deliver sessions twice. This is in addition to remote learning and support. I've just about figured out how to do with with our usual numbers but increase those numbers then we need more staff.

I have the students best interests at heart - students deserve a positive experience when they are here. Overworked academics can't provide that.