To end a friendship even though the friend has been mentally unwell recently?

[Hickorydickoryspock]

I've been friends with someone for around 15 years and they are almost like family to me.. but their behaviour can be very difficult... I'm aware that some of it may be flaws in me and how I respond too.
I think I'm somewhat of an enabler and find it hard to say what I really think unless itseems important to do so. I don't want to hurt anyone and have a deep seated far of causing pain.

However I'm pretty sure my friend has narcissistic personality disorder alongside borderline. These are things she has been diagnosed with in the past but rejects. She has other diagnosis now but to be honest I think she textbook fits the old diagnosis. The main issue being shes unlikely to change as she won't engage with treatments for these issues as she disputes even having them.

Over lockdown its been horrendous for me in terms of interacting with her. She has been in a lot of pain for various reasons and I do have sympathy, but when do you draw the line because itstaking too much of your energy? She has had some type of breakdown and tbf she has sort some professional help for it... but I just think she's been lying and misrepresenting the situation to get what she wants out of it from services. I can't shake the feeling she's being incredibly manipulative... even tho I do know she can't really help her behaviour that much and she justifies it all to herself. Part of me feels so shit for thinking that but I can't shake the revulsion at her behaviour(it would make more sense if I explained the type of things shes been saying but I can't do that as it would be really outing so isn't fair on her)
Ive just been so stressed with her... she talks so intensely often casually saying she's going to kill herself one minute then the nest raging at you because you've used a phrase she's interpreted negatively. I'm not alone in experiencing this from her, in fact a fair few of her other friends have completely stopped talking to her.
I just don't know if I'm actually helping her or just hurting myself... i sometimes think if it wasn't me listing to her shed just substitute me with someone else and it would make next to no difference to her.
I'd happily never speak to her again if I knew it wouldnt hurt her and she was somewhere happy doing fine... but I know that won't be the case if I stop responding she will want to know why which will inevitability lead to some kind of discussion where she gets angry or hurt. She's not someone who will just stop messaging you if you don't message her. Even when I didn't havea phone she would text my husband trying to reach me. So if I want to stop communicating with her I will have to actually say something.
Why is this so hard? I feel so guilty like I should be making the situation better but anything I say..and trust me I only say the most supportive or mildest things... she finds critoscism in unless I just parot back what she is saying to her... the trouble is I just can't recently because she's saying some pretty awful stuff I just don't agree with... in fact I really dislike how she is behaving towards some people and really disagree with her... and I'm angry... i think deep down I very angry with her but haveno way of expressing that as I know full well it won't change anything.

Has anyone dealt with anyone similar in their lives? I really don't know what to do going forward im just so tired of constantly worrying and thinking about her when i know I'm barely seen as a separate human being. It would be really useful to get some outside perspectives on this.

Yes I have been there I know exactly how you feel I distanced myself as next I could however they took the rage ( over something minor ) too far at another person too far and got in lots of bother so they went of the grid thank goodness awful when you feel on eggshells just be breezy polite they will not get away with been manipulative forever try not to worry hope your ok I did feel quite worried about the drama from cutting them off so know how you feel.

@Ghost9525 thanks, good to hear it settled down for you in the end without drama. It is hard! x

Psychopathic personality disorders are mostly untreatable.

If your gut instinct is telling you something is off here, then it probably is. I would follow it if I were you, as this "friendship" is obviously troubling you.

@IncandescentSilver its been troubling me the whole 15 years but I just feel like she's family or something... its sad but I feel like perhaps I'm doing more harm than good by continuing the friendship.. if she never faces consequences for the way she speaks to people and the things she does she doesn't ever have a chance of realising she should change. Maybe she doesn't even want to change anyway.

My sil sounds exactly the same. She starts arguements over nothing and has temper tantrums when challenged.
If it wasn't for my db I'd drop her in a heartbeat because she's caused so many problems. I appreciate she has an illness but it's all drama drama drama.
Run for the hills OP. Your friend will be ok

I think the thing is that this sort of mental unwellness is not like other mental illness and ever likely to resolve without extensive specialised therapy that few with such conditions are enclined to see as at all necessary or are prepared to undertake.

You are not being unkind to want to pull away. Your own mental and other health matters. I can't do friendships like this any more, but unfortunately learnt the long and hard way, with great cost to my health.

You sound very kind. I don't think you can be expected to carry on as part-therapist part-object to a person of this sort without suffering as a consequence and maybe now is not a time to force yourself to suffer more. I mean, this is a hard enough time for most.

If she's narcissistic then you go try a "grey rock" strategy. Once you stop acting as her narcissistic supply, you may find she drops you. That's basically what has happened with the narcassist in our lives. When we stopped giving him what he wanted/needed from us , he stopped getting in touch.

I've been there too. It can be utterly exhausting. I have no advice just sympathy.

Your purpose in life is not to provide her with support & therapy. You are not responsible for her. If she will not engage properly with the services available to her, you cannot do anything about that, nor make up the shortfall, & she shouldn't expect you to do so.

@Porcupineinwaiting I have been trying to do grey rock and just responding with short supportive statements to positive things she says or mundane things about her hobbies etc rather than getting drawn into emotional conversations.. but the thing is she still talks at length and manages to press all the buttons so that even if I'm responding calmpy I'll still be internally l8vid and having a long argument with her in my head saying all the things I really want to say... so it uses tonnes of emotional energy either way.

I think the thing is that this sort of mental unwellness is not like other mental illness and ever likely to resolve without extensive specialised therapy that few with such conditions are enclined to see as at all necessary or are prepared to undertake.

Yep. I have a steadily fracturing friendship with someone with EUPD; they found DBT distressing so stopped doing it; the last time we talked about it, they said they'd read all the papers on it, decided it provably didn't work for their condition and insists they know more than any psychologist, having used Google

They've behaved in absolutely abhorrent ways over the last few years, refusing to acknowledge their behaviour is unreasonable, and I am so fucking tired of having to be ultra supportive all the time, else risk facing the backlash of suicide attempts and self harm.
Your thread has given me food for thought in considering just ending the friendship for the sake of my own head - thank you.
I hope your situation works out ok.

You draw the line exactly where you want to.
When you stop enjoying the friendship and where it begins to take a negative toll on you and your life.
Point is, you are allowed to walk away. Any time.

@Ohnonononononono oh cbt is a contentious point. I've been doing it for anxiety and found it really helpful but she thinks it won't be helpful for her... she was recommended eye movement therapy as well and rejected that... she just basically wants to talk to people and have them agree with her that nothing is her fault and that's all she wants to do endlessly... she's been through some difficult stuff so I do have some sympathy but she will not take responsibility over anything even for her own sake and I just dont know how things are going to improve for her of she doesnt... because all of her interpersonal relationships just keep falling apart and she is constantly upset... but its like she's looking for something external or someone to just care enough about her or agree with her enough that she feels better... and in reality not even a saint would be up to the job

Ive dug my own hole here though by not saying what I felt properly from the beginning and not having strong boundaries.. i think I've hurt us both... because now I'm really angry with her out of years of not properly expressing myself

@FindingNeverland1 thankyou for saying that. I know its true... but its so hard I hate the idea of walking away from anyone and this is a person I've known closely for 15 years... i guess its nearing that point tho. Its good to hear from people who give some perspective... i know in theory it's valid to walk away but obviously she is not going to react to it like its valid or an okay thing to do at all.

Yanbu OP. You would be wise for your own sake to end this friendship.
It sounds like you've really tried but ultimately you're not responsible for her.
If she contacts your husband just ask him to block her number?
Usually I think it's fair to provide an explanation but I wouldn't want to offer advice on this one! Hopefully someone wiser will be along.

If your friend turned up at your house with a broken leg - bones sticking out of the skin, say, and refused your very sensible advice to go and see the highly qualified medical professionals at A&E, what would you tell her?

You can't help her as you are NOT a highly qualified mental health professional. It is completely OK to take a step, or indeed a giant leap away from this friendship. She is not even acknowledging your support, never mind considering your advice, and you are not only getting nothing out of the friendship, but it is taking a huge toll on you.

Yanbu to either phase the friend out/grey rock/confront her. You cannot fix her, and you need to work on yourself. If she threatens suicide, call the police immediately.

I was in your shoes à few years ago, and I had a massive life-changing situation in my life that my ex friend didn't even acknowledge. That was my lightbulb moment, and I just went grey rock overnight.

Gray rocking means you don't talk to her! Cut it way down.

Ive dug my own hole here though by not saying what I felt properly from the beginning and not having strong boundaries.. i think I've hurt us both... because now I'm really angry with her out of years of not properly expressing myself

Well, people like this tend to be boundary violators by their very nature. It wouldn't matter if you had set strong boundaries, she would most probably have trashed them. If you'd been more assertive, etc... Never worked in my experience. The usual rules just do not apply. I guess if you had been blessed with or psychologically set up with stronger boundaries you'd have run a mile when you first encountered her.

But just because you've put up with various things and stayed silent instead of speaking up (probably quite sensibly as it probably rarely has gone down well when you have) doesn't mean you now owe her to have her in your life as a close friend for life. That would be like saying, if you were in a bad marriage, that you now had to stay in it as you've been there for X years, if that makes sense. You are allowed to exit situations that are not good for you.

From the other side: I suffered from mh problems for years. I know I acted like an utter dick at times, temper tantrums, victimy shit, terrible behaviour. I honestly wish more people had just said "your behaviour is unacceptable and until you sort it out, I can't see you." (Not usually friendships tbf, but with boyfriends).

Yes, I would probably have lost my mind. But that is my thing to deal with. It took 20 years of being unable to sustain relationships to realise I was the dick. MH support in the UK is a joke but I paid for some private therapy when I could afford it, did self help, talked to people with my condition online.

It is never your responsibility to take care of someone with mh problems (asides from children). I had a rough childhood, little family support but that doesn't mean everyone else needs to suffer.

Tell her. It will be hard but ultimately it's the best course for both of you. Right now you are enabling her shitty behaviour and it's not good for either of you.

@Hickorydickoryspock when Ohnono types “DBT” it’s not a typo that’s meant to read CBT. Dialectical Behaviour Therapy is the evidence based therapy for EUPD (formally know as Borderline Personality Disorder). Cognitive Behaviour Therapy from a GP referral probably wouldn’t be suitable for your friend and very tricky for her to engage with - she needs a different type of help. With anxiety, such as worrying, health anxiety or OCD (for example) CBT is the best approach where someone doesn’t have a more complex problem with a diagnosis.

As for the toll on you. I think you have to look after yourself and distance yourself by ending the friendship. By remaining present in her life at such a high cost to yourself, no one’s being helped. She’s just going to keep pulling you into her drama.

HopelessSemantics has it. It’s a v similar dynamic to being the enabler in an alcoholic RS - she is out of control and in denial but you inadvertently collude with it by your “support” even if is only your unwilling presence, silence and limited interactions via grey rock.

Currently your function is just an to be an object for her to discharge her emotional instability on to. She comes to you to vent and offload when stuff is/has bubbled over - you provide this service by taking on this excess unregulated emotion which makes her feel good / lightens her load then frees up capacity for her to indulged / engage in more chaos. This is not a friendship - it is a toxic dynamic. She doesn’t value or respect you - she uses you.

You don’t have to live emotionally hijacked / blackmailed by this person. She hasn’t attempted suicide when others have withdrawn - like any addict she just moves on to the next person she can exploit.

I have great sympathy for your friend - I have individuals like this in my family - but her MH doesn’t trump yours - you have tried way too hard for far too long - and the reality is YOU will never fix her or your “friendship”. You would be doing her a constructive kindness to withdraw because it’s only when she can stop the venting and projecting out that she will be forced to look at herself. In AA they call this “detaching with love”. She may then out of the ensuing loneliness / desperation gain some insight and seek professional help - or she may not. This is way beyond your competency and pay grade. Her issues are v complex and to build on the multiple fractured broken leg analogy of a PP - it would be unethical and dangerous for you to attempt to tackle it.

In effect it’s an unbalanced dysfunctional RS and you are only in it because of being stuck in your own issue of FOG (fears, obligations, guilt) - this you need to address - these are always the wrong emotions to stay in a RS.

Really you have 3 options:

1. Fade away slowly to zero contact. She may chase for a bit or kick off - but anticipate that, emotionally and practically protect yourself and then weather it. This won’t be a shock to her - it’s a dynamic she has faced many times before.

1. As above but tell her calmly in a very short sentence that you care for her but you are taking time away from the friendship for your own needs as it has become overwhelming for you. Don’t get drawn into criticising her specifically as that is likely to cause an eruption - or any long winded explanation - just a simple sentence or two about you and what you will do on rinse and repeat. If it goes nowhere - close it down with I have said how it is for me and what I have chosen to do repeatedly, thats not going to chance so I will leave now. Then anticipate and weather the reaction as above.

1. Alternatively set firm boundaries in your RS. Tell her I won’t be talking to you about x,y,z - I don’t want to hear about it and I will ask you to stop if you bring it up. If you are unable to I will leave/end the conversation. We can talk about a,b,c instead. This will be v unsatisfying for her as you are receptacle for her emotional drama.

Good luck with what you choose to do. Get support from other friends and family - you are not dealing with normal here.

Any constructive change in the RS dynamic may be the life changing gift that HopelessSemantics wanted - well done HS on your adaptation/transformation.

YANBU to distance yourself or end a friendship, for any reason.

Would work on your boundaries, eg it sounds like you spent much more of your time and energy on this friend than you wanted to and were able to without negative impact on yourself/other relationships.

Another example: discussing treatment matters.

OP you sound absolutely lovely and clearly a very caring person so any decision you come to will be from a place of desperation and self preservation (and that is vital - you deserve to be happy and safe from constant abuse and misery)

Have you ever tried a very very firm boundary so that you remain in contact (or open to it if she doesn’t cut you off) but with exceptionally tight parameters.
So you say that her behaviour is very hard on you and exhausting and that you feel you aren’t helping her or yourself BUT because you do care about her you would like to remain in contact. Offer a phone call once a week at a set time and during that time just listen without offering suggestions or agreeing with her rants. It will still be hard but you have the knowledge that it will end and you have space again. During the off time you literally blank her. You can even have a specific number for her to use that you turn off in the week. Get your DH to block her. Block her form your normal number.

I appreciate she probably won’t respect any boundary and it’s all or nothing and I’m that case I’d do nothing. This relationship is beyond the scope of friendship and you can’t offer what she wants (not what she needs) and it is detrimental to your own health and happiness.

I have worked in a mental health service. People with the diagnosis you talk about can unfortunately be very manipulative. It's hard to seperate behaviours from their mental health. Some are definitely related or caused by their diagnosis and some can just be personality or behavioural. Obviously this varies for each person!

But it sounds like it's effecting your life a lot. I do believe it is important to support friends but there is a point where doing this at the expense of your own wellbeing is not acceptable.

I think you need to have a conversation. Could you stay in touch but just pop in for a coffee once a month or something? So not ending the friendship like you're dead. But I do appreciate that with people like your friend boundaries are difficult and she might not be able to stick to a light chat once a month. But overall yanbu to prioritise your own wellbeing.