Disappointed secondary schools are reopening

[wovengrass]

I'm hoping for a sensible exchange of ideas on this.
I understand the importance of children missing out on learning, but I can't help but feel that a full reopening of all secondary schools in the UK at the same time is madness.
I strongly feel that it would have been better to spend time/money on making home learning a realistic and standardised solution, as well as putting plans in place for the children that need further support. That way if any future outbreaks happen we aren't just hoping for the best and blindly following this idea that "schools must be the last place to close no matter what."

I also can't get my head around the logistics, locally. The local secondary that my nephew attends (there are several large ones near to me) has over 1000 students, many rely on public transport to get there. With reduced space on transport due to social distancing, I wonder how children will actually all make it to school on time? Many schools are also not allowing children who are late to enter, to avoid the crossing of year group bubbles.

Throw also into the mix that many adult will be relying on the same transport to return to work. I'm genuinely wondering how on earth it is realistic?

I think primary and nursery schools are a different thing entirely, and obviously childcare is a factor then also. But putting 1000 teenagers/young adults + teacher staff into a building with no masks and no country-wide home learning plan if things go wrong, seems absolutely nuts to me.

Just wondering what others think about this?

@ChavvySexPond

Why don't people understand the difference between

"What I want"

and

"What is safe, practical and likely in the circumstances"

???

Have you never heard the saying "hope for the best but prepare for the worst"?

So let's all hope that our bubbles and our schools don't get a Covid cluster but let's make plans to minimise the disruption to our children's education just in case.

OR

Should we just keep repeating that the schools must be open?

Exactly!

Why is relevant what op does for a living or has children? (It isn't.)
This is a societal issue.

@ElizabethMainwaring

Why is relevant what op does for a living or has children? (It isn't.) This is a societal issue.

It isn't

But it does seem as if there is constant nit-picking at anyone who departs from the 'schools must reopen' mantra, even when they are making good points (for example about need for a back up plan)

If it happens (nationally, locally or even just your bubble) would you prefer a planned programme for off-site learning or another chaotic one? Particularly bearing in mind that this time round we won't all be in it together.

[quote wovengrass]@reluctantbrit This is exactly what I'm getting at. If school closures need to happen again, and there is no standardised plan from the government, it will mean more schooling missed and the learning gap will be widened. The rush to get all children back at once, in my opinion, has meant that there hasn't been any thought given to a plan/funding for actual home learning if it needs to happen again. (Not just emailing remote work, but actually teaching remotely)[/quote]
But where do you get suddenly the necessary IT from? Our school had the PTA redistribute funds they raised to buy 20 laptops on top of the ones they already raided the school for to supply year 10 and 12 plus a handful of other students.

DD has a friend who always uses the school library laptops to do homework, the family doesn’t even have a smartphone or the girl her own phone.

I am lucky that my work changed IT landscape and we now have laptops, last year I had to use my private one to log in. If Covid would had hit then we would have been in a very fortunate position that our old one is still ok enough that DD could have worked on it instead of waiting until 5pm each day to start school work as all had to be done on computers and send by email.

Talk about a decent environment in several times and it may work of the government does route additional funds and enough funds.

We just have to do our best with SD and be realistic.

I wholeheartedly agree that schools need to re-open but people should be aware that SD in secondary schools is not happening. Or at least not in the vast majority of schools. I work in a school with 1800+ students and 200+ staff that was probably designed to accommodate half that number. We simply do not have the physical space for SD with all year groups coming back full time.

I'm looking forward to going back in September and agree with pp that DC need to get back to school for their well-being. I am deeply concerned about the impact of school closure on our most vulnerable students. But I think it's important for schools to be open and honest with parents about the risks. 'Bubbles' of 280+ students, classrooms way too small to SD, no PPE allowed and no additional funding from the Government to purchase extra cleaning supplies, recruit more cleaners, install extra sinks etc. means we are, for the most part, carrying on as normal and hoping for the best.

But where do you get suddenly the necessary IT from?

Well quite - that's the sort of issue which needs talking about, and the sort of planning that should be going on now.

What she/he does for a living is irrelevant but not having a secondary school child is relevant in this case, how can you begin to understand why we want them back for their sanity, you can’t comprehend what it’s been like.

reluctantbrit the point you make about availability of IT is a really important one. A nationally standardised remote learning programme only works as a Plan B if all children have access to technology. The laptops for disadvantaged students promised by Gavin Williamson in lockdown did not materialise. At my school we identified about 50 children who did not have a computer/tablet at home (the real number is probably higher, those are just the ones who responded) and we were told we could have laptops for 10 of them. Ok, we thought, not what we were promised but 10 laptops is better than nothing....we have still not received them.

• Well, there's a high school in Georgia which has 900 students and over 40 staff members all testing positive after 6 days back. Or does that not count?*

That’s not true is it. It is 38 students and 12 teachers according to reports, nowhere near 900 students and 40 teachers testing positive

Bold fail!

@Tumbleweed101

A more solid plan B would be good but I have a child start Y10 and her GCSE courses so she desperately needs to go back for that reason. My child going into Y7 I’d not mind staying home longer if needed.

But her gcse course will be affected if bubbles close and there is no national plan B.

She may be getting X teaching whilst those taking the same exams will be getting Y.

That's the point people are trying am to make and is being lost in translation because people decide it means people want schools to stay shut.

They don't.

What they want to a garuntee if they close the teaching and learning won't be affected.

@AllTheUserNamesAreTaken

* Well, there's a high school in Georgia which has 900 students and over 40 staff members all testing positive after 6 days back. Or does that not count?*

That’s not true is it. It is 38 students and 12 teachers according to reports, nowhere near 900 students and 40 teachers testing positive

Apologies if I posted that incorrectly - presumably the 900 all have to isolate though? Mind you, 50 people is still quite a lot.

I don't think we should compare ourselves to the US. They have a president in denial and refuse to SD like we have done. It is a poor comparison.

Well, at the moment, perhaps. But if we carry on as we are, we could very well end up in the same place. People aren't social distancing, are they?

I don't think we should compare ourselves to the US. They have a president in denial and refuse to SD like we have done. It is a poor comparison

It’s not that daft a comparison. Our PM was shaking hands with Covid patients, until he caught the virus and ended up in hospital.

He refused to sack Dom Cummings for breaking quarantine, this has had an appalling impact on trust in the government.

And most importantly secondary schools are planning to go back without social distancing. Just massive bubbles of up to 230 kids with teachers teaching multiple bubbles daily.
There is no social distancing planned in secondary schools.

We are. We haven't changed our behaviour since the start of April and all my family seem to be very cautious too.

Also, not all places are affected. Where I live now, in a rural SE village, there has been very little Coronavirus. There is no need to close our schools round here. Whereas where I am originally from in the north, there is a lot of activity and we even have a death in our family and other very sick, now recovered, relatives.

I completely agree with OP. A centralised complete online curriculum like edX, coursera, Udemy would be beneficial for a lot of reasons including:

1. kids unable to attend school do to medical/mental health issues
2. new outbreak of corona or other infectious disease, more options of ways to learn for kids (eg if they have 1 poor teacher they can look up other explanations)
3. kids being able to study a subject not offered at their school
4. High or low ability kids can go at a pace that suits them in individual subjects but stay with the year group in other subjects.
5. If teachers choose to follow the online curriculum, they may not be able to choose the details of what is covered, but they may be able to spend more time on feedback or targeting help. At least the option would be there if they wanted.

We are. We haven't changed our behaviour since the start of April and all my family seem to be very cautious too

And can you guarantee that all the 150 different pupils teachers see each day will have been careful too.

Pupils will be in bubbles of up to 300. Will all of those 300 kids have been social distancing since April?

Schools back as normal is pretty much an end to social distancing. I think they should go back BUT with extra safety measures. Not the hope for the best fail to plan for the worst approach of the current government.

Some children are receiving no education at home because they don't have computers, internet, quiet space or parents that care about education. Their best chance of a good life is a good education and support from their teachers - something they cannot receive at home. An online school option is a good idea and even post pandemic it will suit the needs of some but the majority want to be in school

Who said they aren't going back with extra safety features. My youngest went back for a few weeks at the end of term. They were taught in bubbles, they now have to wear facemarks on transport, lunches were staggered, clubs were cancelled. I'm sure they have put more thought into it and put more systems in place before term starts now.

Why is it OK for me, a retail worker to have 000's of people traipsing through my department store every time I work there, where all we ask of them is to keep back a bit, wear a flimsy mask and squirt a bit of hand gel, but it is not OK for DC to go back to school? Why is my and other peoples work OK to go ahead if things are so dangerous but it is not OK for the lowest risk group to go back to school? Where is the proof that they spread Coronavirus?

If shops and restaurants don't open, which our economy is heavily reliant on, our economy will tank. If our children are not educated, our future economy will tank. I'm lucky. My DC's school have not missed a beat. Other children are not so lucky with their school.

@minnieok

Some children are receiving no education at home because they don't have computers, internet, quiet space or parents that care about education. Their best chance of a good life is a good education and support from their teachers - something they cannot receive at home. An online school option is a good idea and even post pandemic it will suit the needs of some but the majority want to be in school

And when their bubble shuts or the school as a whole closes?

What then?

They wouldn't have the issues you say they have when school is shut if a plan had been made and those things covered.

Schools opening must happen. What people are concerned about is if they have to close again. And also if this is unevenly distributes throughout the U.K. the effect of this because all year 11's will take the same exams next year.

I completely agree with OP. A centralised complete online curriculum like edX, coursera, Udemy would be beneficial for a lot of reasons

you are assuming that every family has enough laptops/computers, space (children need a quiet place to learn - impossible in overcrowded accomodation), that everyone has an internet connection and you are totally oblivious to the fact that some children have complex needs and cannot access the curriculum that way.

Also learning from home means you need to have one parents at home - with WFH being stopped by a lot of companies (and never being an option for many roles) your suggestion is just ridiculous.

It works for well off families with space, enough money for IT equipment and in the absence of SN. Not for the rest.

Who said they aren't going back with extra safety features. My youngest went back for a few weeks at the end of term. They were taught in bubbles

It sounds like your youngest is in primary school (bubbles of 30). This thread is about secondary schools (bubbles of up to 300).

As a retail worker you are at risk because different adults are in the shop for small amounts of time. And it is appreciated.

What I don’t get is why over 11 year olds have to wear a mask to pop into a shop for 10 minutes. But at school it’s fine for them to sit in a small classroom for 6 hours with 30 other kids and no mask on?

It makes no sense to me.

I completely agree with OP. A centralised complete online curriculum like edX, coursera, Udemy would be beneficial for a lot of reasons

Is this for real? Does everyone have a spare laptop or 2 hanging around? What if your parents are using your only computer to work? What if they have already had to fork out for 2 for both parents to WFH. What if there is more than one child? What if your internet is slow? What if were you live is a black spot.

A lot of children haven't even eaten properly and people are suggesting they all go online on their latest tech and utilise the latest apps. Are state schools going to give all their DC a £300 iPad?

Online learning is great for the children who are naturally motivated and efficient. My dc had no problem at all, submitted all the work willingly, got great feed back from teachers, with minimal supervision from us.
Still, it's not the same as school. Children needs peer interaction.