Disappointed secondary schools are reopening

[wovengrass]

I'm hoping for a sensible exchange of ideas on this.
I understand the importance of children missing out on learning, but I can't help but feel that a full reopening of all secondary schools in the UK at the same time is madness.
I strongly feel that it would have been better to spend time/money on making home learning a realistic and standardised solution, as well as putting plans in place for the children that need further support. That way if any future outbreaks happen we aren't just hoping for the best and blindly following this idea that "schools must be the last place to close no matter what."

I also can't get my head around the logistics, locally. The local secondary that my nephew attends (there are several large ones near to me) has over 1000 students, many rely on public transport to get there. With reduced space on transport due to social distancing, I wonder how children will actually all make it to school on time? Many schools are also not allowing children who are late to enter, to avoid the crossing of year group bubbles.

Throw also into the mix that many adult will be relying on the same transport to return to work. I'm genuinely wondering how on earth it is realistic?

I think primary and nursery schools are a different thing entirely, and obviously childcare is a factor then also. But putting 1000 teenagers/young adults + teacher staff into a building with no masks and no country-wide home learning plan if things go wrong, seems absolutely nuts to me.

Just wondering what others think about this?

*I’m heartily sick of this kind of bollocks too. It’s not about what people want, but what we have decided as a society is important.

Educating children fell into that bracket last time I checked. Therefore it needs to be done. Remote learning is terrible substitute for the real thing and in many cases it was being delivered very badly, to the point that it was useless.*

@LaurieMarlow

I absolutely agree - and with your other post about the constant bollocks about how secondary age children can stay at home without adult supervision and teach themselves cos yeah whatever.

Education is a human right. It’s enshrined in law. We’ve also made it compulsory for all children between the ages of 5 and 18 to be in full time education. Because we generally agree that children under the age of 18 can’t educate themselves. And because we need the workforce of the future to be capable.

(This is a side issue but, unsurprisingly, going to the pub or Primark is not a human right.)

I understand the OP’s point about the back-up plan but that’s an entirely separate point. Online learning isn’t the same as education.

Some of the discourse around this issue betrays a real prejudice and elitism. Clearly continued ‘home learning’ severely disadvantages children from poorer backgrounds (which are often BAME backgrounds). But there’s an undertone of ‘well, if a teenager can’t motivate and teach themselves then that’s their problem.’

Most teenagers cannot motivate and teach themselves. Because they are children. And that is why we require them to attend full time education (and slap their parents with large fines if they don’t attend).

Monkeynuts18, Of course what you say is true but I'm sure I don't need to point out that these are totally unprecedented circumstances. This is a deadly disease, and even for those who think it's all been over-hyped, countless countries world-wide would not have ground their economies to a halt for "just flu."
Personally, my fears about Covid have always been about the disruption to everyday life as we know it, rather than catching it. I was called a doom-mongering pessimist back in January, yet here we are.
Of course schools are disrupted. So is everything else. Pubs and restaurants are re-opening (if they are able to, safely) and now schools will.
But pointing out that children are suffering is kind of a moot point. So are lots of people. That's kind of the whole shit about a pandemic.

Most teenagers cannot motivate and teach themselves. Because they are children. And that is why we require them to attend full time education (and slap their parents with large fines if they don’t attend)

And people on this thread are pointing out that full reopening with very few safety measures and next to no social distancing is likely to lead to further school closures.

I don’t want schools closed again. That’s why I think we need to rethink the government plan.

Schools might well need to be open. But if teachers catch Covid they will need time off sick which means school closures.

BRAVO, Monkeynuts! Can't agree more.

Some of the discourse around this issue betrays a real prejudice and elitism. Clearly continued ‘home learning’ severely disadvantages children from poorer backgrounds (which are often BAME backgrounds). But there’s an undertone of ‘well, if a teenager can’t motivate and teach themselves then that’s their problem

Most teenagers cannot motivate and teach themselves. Because they are children. And that is why we require them to attend full time education (and slap their parents with large fines if they don’t attend

I agree. OP, I would suggest you go to your local schools' websites and look for the detailed reopening plans where they set out in detail how they aim to ensure the kids are kept as safe as practicable.

If people really don't want their kids to go back, don't send them. But it's a peculiarly dog in the manger attitude to say "nobody's kids should be going back because I am too scared to send my kids back".

But if teachers catch Covid they will need time off sick which means school closures

I don't think it's the catching covid that's the issue, it will be the continuous self-isolation for every little cough and sneeze and sore throat. Schools need the quick turnaround saliva testing.

I don't think it's the catching covid that's the issue, it will be the continuous self-isolation for every little cough and sneeze and sore throat. Schools need the quick turnaround saliva testing

That’s a really good point.

Life has to go on and children need an education. They also need to spend time interacting with their peers.

Online lessons are one thing but, for example, if you are a musician, there is no orchestra, no ensembles etc. Just your online lesson. It doesn't make for motivation .

Children like challenges, competitiveness, etc. They need to learn life skills outside the home.

I want my son back at school. Look what happened with the A level results? Awful.

OP you are welcome to home school your child but don't wish that schools don't open. Thank you

We had teenagers motivated, very well with on line teaching. This is Because we went on line two days after lock down and ran a very tight ship. If a student had not logged in by 9.05, we were calling them, then parents etc. The same expectations never wavered. It was business as usual.

My dc were just abandoned by their schools. Lots of wishy washy excuses.

Apparently primary dc are strangely going to be OK.
It's secondary and teens who are at risk and cause risk because they are nearly adults.
I just find it odd not every weapon is being deployed and they all have to wear visors, and teachers. At the very least.

Also apparently, some extraordinary % of private primary and secondary schools, went on line straight after lock down.

State schools didn't. Whilst I totally understand in some cases this would have been difficult, our schools didn't even try. They didn't ask parents what resources we have, do we have resources to share... Nothing.

So the gap between private and grammar and state, will be wide.
It's been very sad and frustrating to see on line teaching done so well, and then seeing the most pathetic, frightened poor attempts at it.

I'm less worried about my primary age child, than I am for secondary age child.
And I'm more worried for myself. I work on a massive site, 100s adults and dc from a very wide radius.

I realise that the OP's title is inflammatory, but are people so stupid as to not realise that there is a huge difference between going back safely and just going back?

Why do some posters insist on this binary view of either schools are open or closed?

If teachers get ill schools will shut
If bubbles burst schools will shut

Can people not see that there must be a set of plans in place to either stop this form happening or allowing education in some form to continue?

Mine did really well with online learning and I recently heard that my head was in front of lockdown a month before it happened and spent every waking hour preparing for it. She emailed us every few days with updates on what she was preparing. On Monday following lockdown at 0830 they had to log in and the school never missed a beat till the last minute of the term.

We are very, very lucky to have the tech my school has and a head like her. I'm not actually concerned about my own DC as they'd be fine, but a bit isolated, working from home. Others aren't so lucky and it can't go on any longer without serious consequences.

Are there any secondary teachers on here? Please share what your school is doing and what you have been asked to do to facilitate schools opening in Sept.

Some of you seem to think schools are going to open with no thought put into it and no SD in place. I highly doubt that.

@cologne4711

But if teachers catch Covid they will need time off sick which means school closures

I don't think it's the catching covid that's the issue, it will be the continuous self-isolation for every little cough and sneeze and sore throat. Schools need the quick turnaround saliva testing.

which Nick Gibb has said that schools won't get.

Yet who will get the blame?

@Vivalasjohnnyvegas

Are there any secondary teachers on here? Please share what your school is doing and what you have been asked to do to facilitate schools opening in Sept.

Some of you seem to think schools are going to open with no thought put into it and no SD in place. I highly doubt that.

The short version

Separate playgrounds.
One way systems
drop off and collection points
a completely different way of waiting for the bus
Grab bags for lunch
different entry and exit ways in to classrooms
separate year toilets (some of these were staff toilets)
Hand gel in classrooms
antibac wipes in classrooms
lidded bins
Supplies of tissues
marking systems
Working on paper
No sharing of equipment (yeah right)
Restricted use of corridors
no practical work till at least half term.

And it goes on

And I bet that is an evolving list Fripp.

That is WAY more than massive shopping centres with thousands of people in and out have to do.

Vivalasjohnnyvegas

That is part (maybe half) of the general school list.

If anyone wants to look at some of the other stuff CLEAPSS has their version of what should eb happening in Science, DT lessons etc.

Including storage of equipment,
sterilisation of equipment
Quarantine times
PPE for practicals etc.

@CallmeAngelina

Of course schools are disrupted. So is everything else. Pubs and restaurants are re-opening (if they are able to, safely) and now schools will.

Of course these are unprecedented times and lots of people are suffering, I absolutely acknowledge that. But I think one of my points is that schools are not ‘everything else’. They are schools. They are an absolutely vital public service and they form a fundamental part of our social contract. And children are not ‘everyone’. They’re children and they have a limited window for education. We have deprived 9 million of them (more than 10% of our population) of a basic human right for the last 6 months. And we will ALL suffer the consequences of that decision for a generation or more - these people are the doctors, nurses, lawyers, politicians and teachers of tomorrow (or, if they don’t get an education, possibly the criminals of tomorrow).

So what I’m saying is - we cannot lump schools in with ‘everything else’ and children in with ‘everyone else’ when discussing this issue. We just can’t.

I fully accept the points about further school closures. But the scientists advising the government have spent many many days and weeks considering that risk and ways to mitigate it.

I fully accept the points about further school closures. But the scientists advising the government have spent many many days and weeks considering that risk and ways to mitigate it.

I would love some evidence for this.
PHE staff have come out and stated that the current rubbish being spouted about there new report that it still to be published is wrong.
That pupils over 10 do in fact spread this virus at the same levels as adults.
A government that is ignoring WHO recommendations.
A government that turned down help from Microsoft and google to put in place a track and trace system that would work instead of what we have (haven't) got from cumming's mate.

So I really don't trust this government to do anything that isn't in its own interest.

We have deprived 9 million of them (more than 10% of our population) of a basic human right for the last 6 months.
Well, actually no, we haven't. (Most) schools have done their very best (in unprecedented circumstances and with zero funding) to provide education remotely after THE GOVERNMENT closed schools for normal lessons. Also, 2 months of your 6 would be holidays/post exam time anyway.
I'm not saying it's not been hugely disruptive and damaging all-round, but those who managed to do the work set remotely, will not be far "behind," so that's not 9 million children.

FrippEnos

I’m not a teacher, just a parent but my kids school has sent out a letter with all those measures on plus lots more. There is no way the kids will stick to no sharing equipment or staying in certain zones etc, it just won’t happen. There’s lots of places on the school grounds the kids have never been officially allowed but they still do.
The teachers are going to have a very tough time. And just to help with that, the school have said detentions won’t happen. The kids may be kept in for 10 minutes over lunch as punishment instead but already parents are moaning that their little angel needs the maximum lunch break to eat and shouldn’t miss out. So I can see the kids behaviour getting worse.

I have a son about to go into y12
He had missed so much essential learning and is having to prepare for A levels and university without any of the usual support. The sooner he is back in school the better.
Kids can't just stay home forever.

But I think one of my points is that schools are not ‘everything else’. They are schools. They are an absolutely vital public service and they form a fundamental part of our social contract

Sadly the virus doesn’t care and won’t stop at the school gate just because it’s an essential service.
Schools need to open in September but with improved social distancing, extra funds for cleaning and random testing of kids and teachers.

Y13 that should say!

The problem is too many state schools did not go on line.

The gap is huge between private and state.

I feel this is how many secondary schools shot themselves in the foot by not even trying to go on line and yet many other schools managed perfectly fine.
So now, there really is no other way.

I get the impression that schools won't close nor the bubble isolate if pupils and staff do come down with it!

I get the impression, it's just carry on, come what may.