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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To think about kicking out (good) tenants?

394 replies

pctmmn · 11/08/2020 13:36

I've had them for over three years and never missed a payment. But in April they said they were struggling so offered a 1/5th rent discount for three months. When this ended they asked for another three months. It doesn't affect my bottom line has I've taken out a 6 month mortgage holiday and the payments won't increase when they start again as it's added to the term.

I've been able to build up a bit of cash, but one works at a hotel and the other manages a resterant.

Would I be unreasonable to ask them to confirm the full rent needs to be paid for September else I'll give them notice? I really want someone in there paying the full rent and it feels like I'm subbing them right now.

OP posts:
WombatChocolate · 12/08/2020 12:43

All LLs need to recalibrate their thinking about tenants at the moment because there has been a humongous economic shift in all markets, including rental.

Lots of LLs are going to find their tenants can’t pay the rent they signed up for due to redundancy. It will be hard to get decent new jobs. LLs can choose to give 3 months notice from the end of Aug or not to renew a short term tenancy. They will know that the tenants may well struggle to rent elsewhere. This is different to random unemployment of usual times but a mass unforeseen globL pandemic and economic crisis. It is not people being idle or spendthrift.

And then the LL faces a different market. The previous rent may well not be achievable anyway. Tenants generally are pushing for lower rents and it might be necessary to offer signifocNtky lower rent to secure a tenant who will pay and has a reliable job ....if it’s possible to even have that at the moment ...perhaps public sector teacher etc. If insisting on higher rent it might be necessary to take someone with less good references or less reliable job. So there is the trade off between perhaps lower more certain rent and higher riskier rent. Most LLs will choose a bird in the hand at the moment and not risk voids or lower rents still or unknown tenants.

In the end Op, these are the choices you face. Actually in this scenario, what is best for you, probably helps the tenant too.

Try to have spoken chats with them at every point, followed with emails confirming details. Alwayslook to discuss and find solutions with them. They have been good tenants for a long time and so if you can find a way to mKe it work it will be worth it for you. Discuss revisiting the issue every 3 months. Discuss possibilities of a repayment plan after this first 6 month reduction is over - it might or might not be possible. In your own mind, try to recLibrate your business model to receiving 75% of old rent levels.

And take a long term view. Difficulties can and do come along. You hVe to be able to weather them like any business and if you can’t without action such as evicting people made jobless by a pandemic, you probably don’t have enough slack built in and maybe finding a Different investment vehicle is right for you. Think about 10 years and income and capital appreciation and all the costs you will incur in providing your service and see odd periods of void or reduced rent as unavoidable costs like other unavoidable costs to any business. If you need to squeeze the 100% rent to make it viable and 80 or 75% won’t mKe it viable, you’ve cut it too fine.

Factor in costs of marketing and new tenancy agreements and probably at least 1 or 2 months empty .....thTs a lot of 20% reductions, plus the loss of reliable known people. How much are those qualities worth to landlords do you think?

It’s this recalibration which is needed and difficult for some. Successful landlords and business people have built in flexibility for crises to occur and adjust their pricing and terms when needed. Others are very rigid and inflexible and ultimately do less well or exit the market. In this market they also impact the lives of others very directly too.

PatriciaPerch · 12/08/2020 12:47

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

daisystone · 12/08/2020 12:47

You are ok financially. They are good tenants and only due to a global pandemic have they found themselves temporarily in a difficult situation. I think you are being utterly unreasonable. Actually I think you are a terrible landlord/lady and I hope your next tenants are a living hell. Of course you should not ask them to leave. You just want to be told by us that you are OK for kicking them out to salve your guilty conscience. It is not OK.

Cosmos45 · 12/08/2020 12:50

@daisystone - I couldn't agree more. I do believe in Karma though and what goes around comes around. I do hope the property lies empty for some time and when the OP finally manages to get new tenants they are a living hell.

BluebellForest836 · 12/08/2020 12:55

It doesn’t matter there’s a pandemic... if they can’t pay then they can’t stay.
They can rent something cheaper and smaller.

The place is unlikely to stay vacant considering I have 2 friends looking for new rentals and it’s like finding rock horse shit where I live.

Best to get tenants in that can pay instead of expecting 20% off every month.

SoPanny · 12/08/2020 12:57

OP all I will say is this;

I’m glad your drafting a note. As someone who’s been on the end of a S21 with no prior warning please please be upfront with the why and give them the chance to give you 100% as of September.

Warn them that if they can’t you will have no option but to serve notice and that you will let them know when you’ve

A) made your decision
B) informed your solicitor to serve notice (sorry for jumbled terms but I’m Scottish)
C) consider withdrawing the S21 if they do say “ok, ok, we can make the rent after all, sorry”.

Receiving notice is a blow and in COVID times makes things a little more complex so please please open the lines of communication and keep them informed, even if it’s news they won’t like.

Granted, you’re not duty bound to do this but trust me, as someone who’s had to evict and been evicted it makes a HUUUUUGGGGGEEEEEE difference.

year5teacher · 12/08/2020 13:01

So hang on - they’re good tenants and you aren’t actually missing out on money, in fact you’ve been able to build up a bit of cash. And you know they’re struggling. But you’re thinking of evicting them. In a recession.

And you literally said “they’re in the hospitality industry and they probably won’t get back on their feet”.

I mean, do what you need to do. No point anyone convincing you otherwise since that’s what you have decided.

BluebellForest836 · 12/08/2020 13:04

The OP has been missing 20% of the rent for 6 months. She’s not a charity.
She doesn’t owe them anything. They picked to live there and signed an agreement to pay a certain amount.

pctmmn · 12/08/2020 13:07

@SoPanny

OP all I will say is this;

I’m glad your drafting a note. As someone who’s been on the end of a S21 with no prior warning please please be upfront with the why and give them the chance to give you 100% as of September.

Warn them that if they can’t you will have no option but to serve notice and that you will let them know when you’ve

A) made your decision
B) informed your solicitor to serve notice (sorry for jumbled terms but I’m Scottish)
C) consider withdrawing the S21 if they do say “ok, ok, we can make the rent after all, sorry”.

Receiving notice is a blow and in COVID times makes things a little more complex so please please open the lines of communication and keep them informed, even if it’s news they won’t like.

Granted, you’re not duty bound to do this but trust me, as someone who’s had to evict and been evicted it makes a HUUUUUGGGGGEEEEEE difference.

Thanks, yes I'm trying to be fair for both of us and give plenty of notice.
OP posts:
Bluntness100 · 12/08/2020 13:09

So hang on - they’re good tenants and you aren’t actually missing out on money

Of course she’s missing out on money, she’s missed twenty percent for six months, so if the rent is 1000 a month, she’s lost 1200 quid, plus the additional interest on her mortgage.

It is a business, she’s not running a charitable housing association.

pctmmn · 12/08/2020 13:09

@year5teacher

So hang on - they’re good tenants and you aren’t actually missing out on money, in fact you’ve been able to build up a bit of cash. And you know they’re struggling. But you’re thinking of evicting them. In a recession.

And you literally said “they’re in the hospitality industry and they probably won’t get back on their feet”.

I mean, do what you need to do. No point anyone convincing you otherwise since that’s what you have decided.

Err I'm down by almost 2k! If that's not much money can you give it to me?

I probably shouldn't say this, but it's a 3 bed and they use 1 bedroom as a closet and the other as a man cave. I'm not going to carry on subbing that after 6 months, they either need to pay 100% asap or move somewhere smaller. The market is boyant here.

OP posts:
year5teacher · 12/08/2020 13:10

If you really need that extra 20% in order to live then fine, if you really don’t need it I would say you weigh up evicting them - if you don’t need the money and if it’s likely to cause them real hardship (as you yourself say that they’re not going to get back on their feet), then don’t do it. Seriously.

UsedUpUsername · 12/08/2020 13:20

She has posted she is going to time the eviction so it occurs just before Christmas/mid December and none of you have picked up on that

If they are actually good renters, it won’t come to that. If they can’t pay the full rent, they will simply give notice and look for a new rental property within their budget. Will be plenty of landlords looking for new tenants these days anyway.

But what’s needed is a conversation and everything laid out on the table so all parties know what’s up.

year5teacher · 12/08/2020 13:21

Why post on AIBU if you’re completely resistant to listening to anyone saying YABU Hmm

userbbb · 12/08/2020 13:23

The OP has been missing 20% of the rent for 6 months. She’s not a charity. She doesn’t owe them anything. They picked to live there and signed an agreement to pay a certain amount.

But this is a highly unusual situation, we are in a pandemic. Why do you think the government even introduced a furlough scheme, mortgage holidays, took the homeless off the streets, sent out care packages, etc?

dontdisturbmenow · 12/08/2020 13:24

Much talk about excellent or good tenants. One that doesn't pay their full rent is not avoid tenant. They might be a good person but failing on that key term of their contract makes them lose that label. They were excellent tenants and they now are no longer so.

Many insisting that OP might be worse of, but no one knows. In my area, demand significant outweigh supply for the type of property and area where my house is. There is and always has been a long waiting list. It could be the same for OP.

Would OP make a better business decision as to whether evict them and get new tenants? Who knows.

Should OP decide to see how things go whether she would otherwise get better tenants is a case of sympathy.

In OP's situation, I would base my decision on the tenants engagement. If they are taking the initiative to keep OP informed, showing some remorse about the situation and that they do consider paying the rent a priority, I would most likely sympathise although would expect them to explain why they are not able to claim UC or claim for the government grant.

pctmmn · 12/08/2020 13:27

@year5teacher

If you really need that extra 20% in order to live then fine, if you really don’t need it I would say you weigh up evicting them - if you don’t need the money and if it’s likely to cause them real hardship (as you yourself say that they’re not going to get back on their feet), then don’t do it. Seriously.
Most buisnesses would struggle with a 20% drop in income as that's a large part of the profit margin. Do you have a point?
OP posts:
pctmmn · 12/08/2020 13:28

@year5teacher

Why post on AIBU if you’re completely resistant to listening to anyone saying YABU Hmm
The vote has been 60/40 with plenty agreeing with me Hmm
OP posts:
pctmmn · 12/08/2020 13:28

@dontdisturbmenow

Much talk about excellent or good tenants. One that doesn't pay their full rent is not avoid tenant. They might be a good person but failing on that key term of their contract makes them lose that label. They were excellent tenants and they now are no longer so.

Many insisting that OP might be worse of, but no one knows. In my area, demand significant outweigh supply for the type of property and area where my house is. There is and always has been a long waiting list. It could be the same for OP.

Would OP make a better business decision as to whether evict them and get new tenants? Who knows.

Should OP decide to see how things go whether she would otherwise get better tenants is a case of sympathy.

In OP's situation, I would base my decision on the tenants engagement. If they are taking the initiative to keep OP informed, showing some remorse about the situation and that they do consider paying the rent a priority, I would most likely sympathise although would expect them to explain why they are not able to claim UC or claim for the government grant.

Great balanced post!
OP posts:
year5teacher · 12/08/2020 13:31

@pctmmn yeah, my point is that you need to look at it and see if it’s worth evicting them when they may be in dire straits. If you need that extra 20% to pay the mortgage, for example, then fine. But if you don’t actually need that money I would just consider if it’s worth kicking people out who may really struggle to get back on their feet. They might really struggle to rent somewhere else.

If someone disagrees with you you can’t seem to hear it, so there’s little point anyone commenting who doesn’t want to tell you to kick them out.

WombatChocolate · 12/08/2020 13:31

Can you be sure you will financially be better off by evicting them at the moment? Do you want to take further risk at this time?

In the current climate it’s not just about tenants needing to pay what they signed up for and could afford 6 months ago. It’s about certainty for you moving forward and tyKing a longer term view. Yes, this isn’t ideal, but can you guarantee a better outcome and be certain you won’t find yourself in a worse financial position.

Puzzledandpissedoff · 12/08/2020 13:33

drafting a note now to check they'll all ready to pay 100% of the next rent due

Very wise, OP; put it nicely, obviously, but do put it in writing - and ignore suggestions about "just having a chat", which can all too easily lead to misunderstandings and he said / she said

Tenants are (correctly) advised to "get everything on paper" and you should do the same in what is, after all, a business arrangement and not a charity

pctmmn · 12/08/2020 13:33

@WombatChocolate

Can you be sure you will financially be better off by evicting them at the moment? Do you want to take further risk at this time?

In the current climate it’s not just about tenants needing to pay what they signed up for and could afford 6 months ago. It’s about certainty for you moving forward and tyKing a longer term view. Yes, this isn’t ideal, but can you guarantee a better outcome and be certain you won’t find yourself in a worse financial position.

I can't be sure if I let them stay or if I section 21 them I will be better off. It's a risk either way 🤷‍♀️
OP posts:
pctmmn · 12/08/2020 13:34

@Puzzledandpissedoff

drafting a note now to check they'll all ready to pay 100% of the next rent due

Very wise, OP; put it nicely, obviously, but do put it in writing - and ignore suggestions about "just having a chat", which can all too easily lead to misunderstandings and he said / she said

Tenants are (correctly) advised to "get everything on paper" and you should do the same in what is, after all, a business arrangement and not a charity

Thanks , totally agree the chat advice is bad. I'll make it short and to the point.
OP posts:
Badjudgeofcharacter · 12/08/2020 13:37

Your attitude is vile. Kicking people out before Christmas. Karma is a bitch.