To think school parents won’t get themselves or their kids tested

[Sistery]

...and will probably send in kids who should be isolating?

I did a Covid test last week (negative). It wasn’t terrible but was a faff and uncomfortable.

I just think that if so many people won’t even wear a bit of fabric over their face to protect others then they definitely won’t miss work or stick a swab in their nose/throat. Especially bearing in mind that they’ll have to do it every single time anyone in their family has a cough or temperature or can’t smell anything (all winter... ) They just won’t. People send sick kids to school a lot anyway - it’s how sick bugs and viruses fly round so easily so they’re already inclined to do this, and given the government is pushing hard at the narrative that Covid is some magical virus that children conveniently don’t spread, parents will be even more likely to send them. Especially if it’s someone else in the household that’s got symptoms

We just don’t seem to live in a country with a strong sense of social responsibility but equally we don’t enforce any so no temperature checks or mandatory PPE or anything at school.

YABU = People will isolate for 10 days if they get any Covid symptoms and their household will isolate for 14, until a throat and nasal swab shows a negative result, and they’ll repeat this every time anyone in the household gets any symptoms all winter.
YANBU: No they won’t.

With people mentioning about jobs I wonder how this would work with uc. As their understanding when it comes to illness is well known what happens when someone who is isolating is forced to go to the job centre or be sanctioned?

@Legoandloldolls

Yes everyone who has a child never wears a mask and of course no parent would ever get a CV test.

Woman and men become selfish fuckwits once they reproduce.

Of course you should generalise about a massive demographic in one fail swoop.

Btw this selfish fuckwit is being sarcastic.

This. I don’t agree with teacher bashing, I think in general they’re doing their best in shit circumstances. But why the fuck is all the parent bashing ok? Yes I will take mine to get tested. Yes I will isolate for a positive test. I am lucky that it won’t affect our work situation (well not anymore than Covid as already affected it, as I’ve already lost my business). I’m sure some parents will try and get around it, from all the parents I know I imagine these will be in the minority.

Asymptomatic people who want to have a party should not be using the testing in the U.K.

you would have to lie to get a government test that you had symptoms and this is abuse of resources

@drspouse

The fact that schools can’t even ask to see a negative result is fucking madness! But they can and do?

They can and do but that requires parents to either not be aware if guidance or to be co operative.

If a parent refuses the school has no recourse and that will be a problem.

Schools can't even ask for proof that a test has been negative, so parents can just lie and we would never know!

people aren’t aware how easy it is to get tested

I agree with @Sistery. I live in a deprived area so lots of reliance on public transport. First test I did was 15 miles away into a rural small town where buses go every three hours. I also agree the postal test is a test in itself - the booklet that comes with it is 20 pages long, there is much faffing with stickers and test tubes and it took me 10 minutes to work out how to assemble the box. In all seriousness, had I been genuinely unwell and as the only adult in my household, I wouldn’t have bothered. It was a proper faff. Will be easier if I have to do it again but none of it was easy in the first instance.

@nestisflown
Knowing how easy it is I think I’ll go get us tested monthly, and at the very least whenever any of our household develop related symptoms
The advice and guidance is to only get tested when showing symptoms, but saying you’re going to do it monthly is, IMO, totally irresponsible and wasting tests that are needed for others who are showing symptoms or NHS/care home staff who are needing to be tested more regularly.

In all seriousness, had I been genuinely unwell and as the only adult in my household, I wouldn’t have bothered. It was a proper faff. Will be easier if I have to do it again but none of it was easy in the first instance.

I had exactly the same thought when I was doing mine. I had flu (actual flu) last year and there is genuinely no way I could have managed it if I felt as I felt then. I could barely lift my head. And I mean I couldn’t have done the test and following instructions bit - I definitely couldn’t have driven to a test centre or post box. Fine for me as I’d like have someone with me who could do it on/for me. But if I lived alone or with just children I wouldn’t have got it done.

I also thought it would be easier the second time but they’d changed the process! Courier the first time, post the second.

My DD is constantly ill with some kind of lurgy that’s going around from September-April usually. Might get a week or two where she’s not full of snot. She hasn’t been ill at all since schools shut but I will know what will happen as soon as she’s back. It’ll be a nightmare.

@drspouse

turns around anybody who is coughing before they've entered the premises. Any child with exercise induced asthma walking up the hill to DD school then?

Well, the school staff would be aware of any child with asthma, wouldn’t they.

But why the fuck is all the parent bashing ok?

Experience I guess. We all know people send kids into school sick. We know lots of people aren’t wearing masks. We know lots of people feel Covid is overblown. We know lots of people are now breaking other guidelines. And as I said in my OP, if people won’t do the things that are not that hard (for most) like social distancing and wearing masks in shops, they definitely won’t drive to a place and stick stuff up their whole families’ noses every few weeks all winter, they just won’t. I’d love to have your faith in humanity. Certainly if I took my friends and I as a sample I’d be reassured. But sadly the internet and my wider community paint a different picture.

turns around anybody who is coughing before they've entered the premises

I’m theory this is one way of capturing that very small percentage of children who have active Covid with a noticeable cough and heading them off. But it’s not going to work because - apart from the fact most with Covid and all with symptomatic siblings won’t be coughing - but also because a cough isn’t a symptom. It’s a new continuous cough. I don’t think schools will be able to instantly send someone away for coughing without establishing that the cough is both new and continuous and not related to asthma or allergies and the person hasn’t had a test. What do you do when X child is coughing but mum says it’s still a cough from the cold they had 10 days ago and they were tested then?

I wouldn’t take the internet as much indication.

Reading the mask threads you’d think everyone was walking around upset at the dystopian world or refusing.

In reality people put on a mask and go shopping. 95% in my supermarket.

I think its a tough one. Today I celebrated having no money in my bank account because it meant I'd been able to earn enouh to get out of my my overdraft. So many people are completely financially fucked and don't have any more safety nets.

I think there needs to be proper sick pay for those isolating.

"the government is pushing hard at the narrative that Covid is some magical virus that children conveniently don’t spread,"

Are you upto date on the global research? 13 countries have had schools, back for some time, some never closed their schools. Nine countries have had excellent track and trace and we know from intensive research that transmissions aren't coming from children. Viruses have transmission routes, pathogens need specific circumstances to develop, there's nothing magical about the government's plans.

It's the 19-25 year olds that are causing the spikes and that will continue. That age group work across the retail and service sector, who don't have to wear masks at work and that will be the route of transmissions. As well as the factory workers. We know enough to know that children aren't an issue, unlike with other infections.

It’s not ‘faith in humanity’, I know some people are dicks.
But the vast majority (more people than the government expected) complied with lockdown. The vast majority are, in my experience, wearing masks. The vast majority are following guidelines. And the vast majority of parents will do what it takes to make sure schools are safe enough to stay open.
This time has been shit for parents too. They’ve had to get used to changes in their employment while also trying desperately to homeschool their kids and care for toddlers/babies at the same time. Many people’s jobs are on the line. Most are doing their best to comply with the guidance while keeping a roof over their heads and ensuring their children are cared for. They’re not all feckless tossers who want to send their kids off to school so they can lie around watching daytime TV.
I’ve already lost my business due to having to homeschool and look after an 18 month old. Understandably my clients went to those who didn’t have the same commitments. I hadn’t seen self employed long enough to get any government help.
I took my kids out of school 2 weeks before lockdown because one had symptoms (a cough). This was before we were being told to self isolate for symptoms. The only time I have been tempted to send my children in ill is after receiving a letter from school saying my child’s attendance was unsatisfactory and required improvement (she’d had 2 days off for sickness and diarrhoea and 3 days off for scarlet fever which saw her hospitalised). I do my bit, as do most parents I know.

In reality people put on a mask and go shopping. 95% in my supermarket.

About 50% in mine and hard to walk down the street without people brushing shoulders with you. I think everyone assumes people are all as literate and financially solvent as them and share their morals. Mumsnet - and even many supermarkets - are only representative of a comparatively privileged section of society.

I had no idea that schools aren't meant to ask for evidence of a negative result. What's the point then? I reckon parents might follow the rules the first or second time it happens but after that, once they've realised they haven't had to give proof, some parents will definitely lie. Especially if they have an employer who isn't understanding or if they're losing lots of money.

I think it will be different now with sending kids in post Covid-19.

Previously schools encouraged parents to send kids in when they were under the weather, and then despite the 48 hour rule would send snotty letters to parents about attendance.

I know my DSs primary school has told parents that "the school would be the judge of whether the kids were too ill to attend and so would be sent home if sufficiently unwell" . Err no, that would be my responsibility as a parent thank you.

I know I'm going to be told that this was all Ofsteads fault for measuring schools on attendance which I'm aware of, but if parents are sending in ill kids, the head has to take some responsibility for that if they've taken the approach described above.

So I do think now where schools are naturally going to take a different approach to coughs and temperatures that we will see a change from the responsible parents. But there are of course an irresponsible cohort as well as those who fear for heir jobs.

It's the 19-25 year olds that are causing the spikes and that will continue.

So 16-18 year olds in school magically don't contribute to infections but 19 year olds do? What happens to the human body on 19th birthdays?

About 50% in mine and hard to walk down the street without people brushing shoulders with you

That is different to here I agree. Everyone moves aside on the pavement and has done the whole time. Residential area, not busy at all though.

Maybe in some areas schools will suffer more, and it’ll be seen with local lockdowns or closures there.

So 16-18 year olds in school magically don't contribute to infections but 19 year olds do?

Convenient!

Are you upto date on the global research? 13 countries have had schools, back for some time, some never closed their schools.

Can you name a directly comparable country in terms of infection rates and school conditions (class sizes, handwashing facilities, PPE, track and trace, age and ventilation of buildings, social distancing rules)? I’d genuinely love to think there was a direct comparison but I just don’t see one. To look at schools where kids are distancing ofvin masks or have increased budgets for sanitation and say ‘kids don’t spread it so we are safe’ seems like a leap.

People will send sick kids in. Partly because they don't want to lose income (understandable) but partly because we have an education system that rewards 100% attendance and punishes absences with letters from the LA even if you've proved to the school that the 5 absences were hospital appointments. Until
COVID it was only ok to keep kids home for D&V (48 hours) or if they were so ill that they couldn't get out of bed. If they had a cold (runny nose, cough or slight temp) it was expected to send them in. I hope that there's a rethink about attendance awards. While missing school time does affect education, it's mainly luck that affects attendance.