AIBU to asked if mixed race people are classified as BAME

[redskyatnight2020]

Not that I am pro labelling people but the way but obviously we are all classified by our ethnicity in statistics and health outcomes etc.
My children are mixed British/North African. Would they still be classed as BAME?

Yes, usually.

It's a good question @redskyatnight2020 - I am mixed race (black Caribbean/white).

From an identify perspective, I don't see myself as BAME at all. It's hard to explain but I think all the categorisation stuff is complete bollocks when it comes to me. I have huge respect, love and sympathy for all my BAME brothers and sisters who get profiled due to their names, their areas, held back due to ingrained racism, etc. It's nonsense and I'm so happy this is finally getting a continued sustained national narrative. However I started life in an estate, but from a youngish age ended up growing up in an area the Daily Mail are amusingly calling Britain's "Beverly Hills". I just can't sit here talking about "the struggle", it never happened.

Back on topic, yes on fovernment and official forms I identify under a minority for equal opportunity purposes, because.. well it's the truth. But again I hate all that "where are you from?" stuff as for me it just really isn't a factor.

Yes, I would call my children BAME (White/Asian).

I get the confusion though, there's a BAME toddler group at our children's centre (not now obviously) and the blurb is so confusingly written that I can't tell if we're eligible or not (especially as the white parent).

Yes

@JuniperFather
There have been a few times where I've had to complete forms that have tick boxes for ethnicity and I never know which one to pick. They have dark hair and olive skin that gets really dark in the summer. They are of North African descent but don't fall under the Black - African section. Diabetes Type II is rife in their country of origin so they are probably at a higher risk of developing it than if they were White -British. They have North African sounding names.
In the country where their father is from, in the North people tend to have the 'look' of Southern Europeans but in the South look black. As a result, they have extended family members that look European and others that look black

Who actually uses the term BAME in real life?

No one I know is scared to say they’re black, or mixed race, or Asian or white or traveller or whatever.

@isadorapolly

I'm not talking about everyday life but more in regards to official forms that you fill out. For example, schools might track educational outcomes of BAME students.

Yes whether a person is mixed black or mixed Asian or whether they are full I would still class that person as BAME , as that’s their ethnicity, however whether that person sees themselves as BAME is different as some people don’t always identify to their heritage of being black or Asian or an ethnic minority perhaps due to their background or upbringing.

Yes but it sits uncomfortably with me (I’m black Africans/white mixed race).

I’ve asked myself why does it not sit right and I’ve concluded that it’s because it reminds me of the South African apartheid system of “one drop” and you would be seen as a lesser person. I.e only 100% white was the best.

I’m in a privileged position compared to my family members with darker skin because I can “pass” more easily and less likely to be subject to unconscious bias.

The fact that there are boxes to tick about your ethnic origin is a reminder that racism very much is alive and well.

I just can't sit here talking about "the struggle"

I think sometimes the media forgets middle class non-white people exist. DC have 2 graduate parents, live in the South East, and DS1 is about to start at a lovely primary school. I don't think DS1 is any less likely to be a doctor/lawyer than any of his little friends (at the moment he's dithering between farmer or 'rock star' he's 4 :) ).
The grown up BAME people he knows do similar sorts of jobs as the white grown ups (doctor, nurse, solicitor, lots of office workers, media).

The fact that there are boxes to tick about your ethnic origin is a reminder that racism very much is alive and well.

Not particularly. Tackling racism starts with data that prove systemic racism through statistics. It is the countries that don’t collect the data that bother me the most (I.e New Zealand). Easy to say you don’t have a racism problem if there’s no data to show you do.

Same here my dc are mixed White British/North African. They usually go down as mixed/other or white British/Arab if that one is an option (DH ethically Arab).
I think I’d rather tick a box that says “human”.

The thing with "ethnic minority" is that some people forget it's supposed to describe population not worth. Only supremacists would come up with labels that conveniently have a double meaning.

Anyway, BAME means Black And Minority Ethnic (supposed to be Ethnic Minority but I suppose it didn't fit in the acronym - BAEM and it serves the other meaning quite well subliminally).

The ethnic minority label would differ from country to country though because an African would be considered an Ethnic Minority here but not in their country in Africa or in the African continent in general. A European is an Ethnic Minority in Africa.

So yes, you are baME in the UK in that regard and you're children will always be baME in that they are in the minority as mixed ethnicity people.

That said, as an African, I'm African and an ethnic minority in the UK. Nothing else. Not going to be reduced to a catch all term for people from different continents.

This is a weird one for me. I have two children, both half Pakistani/white. One is brown skinned, dark curly hair, the other is really white, brown hair (but has his fathers facial features). No one believes that the lighter skinned child is BAME. The darker skinned one is accepted as BAME, and they both have the same heritage. It has lead to many interesting situations.

I think sometimes the media forgets middle class non-white people exist. DC have 2 graduate parents, live in the South East, and DS1 is about to start at a lovely primary school. I don't think DS1 is any less likely to be a doctor/lawyer than any of his little friends (at the moment he's dithering between farmer or 'rock star' he's 4 smile ).

That is incredibly naive. I’m a BAME middle class person in a competitive profession- as are all my siblings. And while we eventually ended up in the profession through sheer grit and determination- we definitely faced prejudices and barriers along the way that my white peers didn’t face.

Let’s flip your example and relate it to sexism. Would you say being middle class stops a woman from experiencing discrimination? And suddenly breaks down the glass ceiling? I.e your middle class daughter will now be just as likely as a middle class boy to get a director/ board position and earn equally to those boys throughout their career by virtue of being middle class. Of course it doesn’t - class is just an additional privilege but doesn’t make the other privileges (or lack of) such as race, disability, sexual orientation, poverty/wealth disappear .

some typos*

Your*

The fact that there are boxes to tick about your ethnic origin is a reminder that racism very much is alive and well.

They also ask you this for health reasons in hospital, if you are white-other like me than they'll often ask you to specify that too.

Very interesting. I'm Mexican (so Hispanic/Latina) who's also Jewish (that its own can of worms). My children are half me half white British. I've always considered myself BAME and the same for my children because even though we don't look like the typical /more common British minorities they're still mixed and Hispanic/Latina is definitely its own ethnic group.

"Let’s flip your example and relate it to sexism. Would you say being middle class stops a woman from experiencing discrimination? And suddenly breaks down the glass ceiling? I.e your middle class daughter will now be just as likely as a middle class boy to get a director/ board position and earn equally to those boys throughout their career by virtue of being middle class. Of course it doesn’t - class is just an additional privilege but doesn’t make the other privileges (or lack of) such as race, disability, sexual orientation, poverty/wealth disappear ."

I disagree with this, there is very little difficulty for Women these days. I would say woman can do whatever they want, when they want. Its very old fashioned to say women have difficulties these days.

@nestisflown

The fact that there are boxes to tick about your ethnic origin is a reminder that racism very much is alive and well.

Not particularly. Tackling racism starts with data that prove systemic racism through statistics. It is the countries that don’t collect the data that bother me the most (I.e New Zealand). Easy to say you don’t have a racism problem if there’s no data to show you do.

I filled endless forms in NZ ticking ethnicity boxes.

There's plenty of things to action in NZ, but adding extra forms for box ticking isn't one.

Yes - but what generation does it stop. I tick the White British box on forms - I look ‘Spanish’ but have mixed/foreign ancestry due to my dad not knowing his biological father. It wasn't spoken about due to illegitimacy (many years ago), big hush hush secret , so we actually don’t know , unless I were to take a DNA ancestry test.

For the PPs above with one white parent, one African one would probably tick BAME Mixed White/African. But my question is what do you tick for the grandchild who is 1/4 African? Let’s say 2 grandchildren , both 1/4 African , and one has brown eyes and brown skin and looks visibly ‘BAME’, and 1 grandchild has fair skin, blond hair, blue eyes. Technically both BAME. What about the great grandchildren? 1/8 BAME.

Of my children 2 look stereotypically white so are never asked the ‘what are you’ question, whereas my middle DC has plucked his genes from a couple of generations back it seems and has dark eyes, black hair and brown skin. He will be seen as ‘BAME’ possibly (especially in the Summer when he gets more of a tan) whereas the other two won’t.
It’ll be down to them to identify as they wish.

Mixed race people tend to get glossed over in discussions about ethnicity.

Until comparatively recently, if you were mixed race, you had to tick "Other" on the ethnicity forms which felt like the form writers weren't even acknowledging that mixed race could exist.

Now the list of possible ethnicities is longer, but it's still hard to tick the right box. Ethnicity should be about more than the colour of your skin. On medical type questionnaires I tend to say my DC are "mixed race" but on other forms (which are looking for equal opportunities) I'll say they are white - as they look white and culturally have the same upbringing as a white British child.

but from a youngish age ended up growing up in an area the Daily Mail are amusingly calling Britain's "Beverly Hills". I just can't sit here talking about "the struggle", it never happened

I think the media has a tendency to portray BAME people as living in poverty or on council estates or all involved in criminality and loaded with social problems. It's not representative. However, surely a middle class upbringing and being financially comfortable doesn't cushion you entirely from racism, both direct and systemic.

My dc are mixed race, I'd consider them to be BAME.

Imo, ethnic minority is anyone (regardless of your ethnicity) whose ethnicity is in the minority where they are but it seems BAME is only used when talking about black (everyone with a certain skin colour )/mixed and Asian?

Hmm🤔

Now the list of possible ethnicities is longer, but it's still hard to tick the right box.
DC are White/Asian but not Indian/Bangladeshi/Pakistani or Chinese.
They are White-Other/Asian-Other.