AIBU to asked if mixed race people are classified as BAME

[redskyatnight2020]

Not that I am pro labelling people but the way but obviously we are all classified by our ethnicity in statistics and health outcomes etc.
My children are mixed British/North African. Would they still be classed as BAME?

Yes, your children are classed as BAME - Minority ethnic.

To detail slightly I’ve often thought it interesting that President Obama and Meghan Markle are called black when actually they’re both half white so neither ethnic side predominates. Is that because one side is societally dominant and the other isn’t?

That's another concept I find strange. 50/50 different "race". Just as white as they are black and would be denying one side if clinging to another, imo.

But hey ho..they can call themselves whatever.

we are all 'mixed race', current theory is that humans started to evolve in Africa, and then moved on. Most people in Europe carry Neanderthal genes, showing there was inter-race breeding 1000s of years ago. The first 'black' people in Great Britain were Roman soldiers, 2000 years ago, pre-dating Anglo-Saxons by 100s of years. There is plenty of evidence to show that during the Bronze age (and before) people migrated here from central Europe. I have little doubt the same sort of movement and breeding happened all over the world, with maybe a few exceptions in very isolated spots.

'Africa's great civilisations' - a film or documentary I've just seen on Amazon Prime video about some of what you @Ifailed mentioned. Haven't watched it yet myself, just saw it yesterday. Don't know how detailed it would be.

BAME is basically anyone who is not white.

To detail slightly I’ve often thought it interesting that President Obama and Meghan Markle are called black when actually they’re both half white so neither ethnic side predominates.

This really annoys me.
I know especially with Barack Obama the amount of people who said ‘he only won because he’s black’ or ‘How can trump stop racism when the black president couldn’t’ or ‘he will only look after black people because they only look after their own’.
But he is just as much white as he is black and he even lived with his white grandparents for a while so if anything he would consider himself as more white. He’s the only president who had to prove he was born in America by showing his birth certificate. Trumps parents or grandparents were German and his wife is not American but they’ve not needed to show their birth certificates.
It is quite shocking how racism is so apparent in the world and I know Megan has had similar issues.

President Obama and Meghan Markle - they had the ‘one drop rule’ in US and that’s a hangover from that presumably. The Americans would say Archie is black maybe? I don’t know , but in the UK he would be possibly ‘mixed’, or even ‘white with a mixed mum’.

[quote redskyatnight2020]@JuniperFather
There have been a few times where I've had to complete forms that have tick boxes for ethnicity and I never know which one to pick. They have dark hair and olive skin that gets really dark in the summer. They are of North African descent but don't fall under the Black - African section. Diabetes Type II is rife in their country of origin so they are probably at a higher risk of developing it than if they were White -British. They have North African sounding names.
In the country where their father is from, in the North people tend to have the 'look' of Southern Europeans but in the South look black. As a result, they have extended family members that look European and others that look black[/quote]
There are usually mixed race categories on the form, as well as Other in case theirs isn't described (which is usually what I have to pick).

If it's the same categories as the government uses, they would be Any other Mixed / Multiple ethnic background (assuming their father is Berber).

www.ethnicity-facts-figures.service.gov.uk/style-guide/ethnic-groups

Should we talk about the Queen's/Prince Phillip's heritage? I'm sure some would be rolling their eyes now because "people bring this up everytime".

Looking at someone's defence (not that it's necessary) of why the Queen is not/no longer anything but British:
"...the Queen's family have lived in Britain for many centuries. She speaks English as her first language and French fluently. Not German. She was born in Bruton Street, Mayfair."

Couldn't a similar thing be said of people in the UK who are still asked to choose their ancestor's heritage as theirs despite them not having any other links to those continents/countries? Why is the Queen exempt?

@Sunrise234

BAME is basically anyone who is not white.

To detail slightly I’ve often thought it interesting that President Obama and Meghan Markle are called black when actually they’re both half white so neither ethnic side predominates.

This really annoys me.
I know especially with Barack Obama the amount of people who said ‘he only won because he’s black’ or ‘How can trump stop racism when the black president couldn’t’ or ‘he will only look after black people because they only look after their own’.
But he is just as much white as he is black and he even lived with his white grandparents for a while so if anything he would consider himself as more white. He’s the only president who had to prove he was born in America by showing his birth certificate. Trumps parents or grandparents were German and his wife is not American but they’ve not needed to show their birth certificates.
It is quite shocking how racism is so apparent in the world and I know Megan has had similar issues.

I think what you have written here demonstrates why Obama and MM are viewed as black not white.

I think what you have written here demonstrates why Obama and MM are viewed as black not white.

Yes I agree.

Different health concerns are
more prevalent in different ethnic groups. In a health setting this information is not just about monitoring discrimination, it's about allowing the correct interpretation of test results.

@nestisflown

I think sometimes the media forgets middle class non-white people exist. DC have 2 graduate parents, live in the South East, and DS1 is about to start at a lovely primary school. I don't think DS1 is any less likely to be a doctor/lawyer than any of his little friends (at the moment he's dithering between farmer or 'rock star' he's 4 smile ).

That is incredibly naive. I’m a BAME middle class person in a competitive profession- as are all my siblings. And while we eventually ended up in the profession through sheer grit and determination- we definitely faced prejudices and barriers along the way that my white peers didn’t face.

Let’s flip your example and relate it to sexism. Would you say being middle class stops a woman from experiencing discrimination? And suddenly breaks down the glass ceiling? I.e your middle class daughter will now be just as likely as a middle class boy to get a director/ board position and earn equally to those boys throughout their career by virtue of being middle class. Of course it doesn’t - class is just an additional privilege but doesn’t make the other privileges (or lack of) such as race, disability, sexual orientation, poverty/wealth disappear .

Well said.

You are a fool if you don't think racism (or sexism or homophobia etc etc) doesn't exist and that if you are BAME you won't have suffered any racism at all.

Yes there are a lot of BAME/Femaledoctors, but not many BAME/Female board member on FSTE 100 companies etc.

I’m half white British and half Chinese. Even though I’m mixed race, I feel a bit uneasy identifying with BAME. Maybe because the advocates are not usually East Asian. I also feel BAME creates divide. We are all human. We don’t need anymore labels and categories!!

@BettyFerrera I’d say if you’re full or half then you’re technically BAME. I don’t like these categories though. We’re human.

Sounds like your kids are half Algerian based on your description of the country.

They’re part of a minority ethnic group (North African/ Arab). So yes, count as BAME.

If it helps, I think Irish people probably count as BAME- it’s about being an ethnic minority, not about being dark/ near black. I’m not sure on the Irish so don’t want to get flamed, but a minority ethnicity of any kind counts.

I know an Algerian couple, he is olive and would tick the other/ Arab box when it was introduced. She was fair and blue eyed and would tick the white box. You can identify however you like- but as you note your genes might put you at higher risk for certain illnesses etc. Diabetes is rife in Algeria etc.

I’m a bit surprised to read this OP. BAME is not the greatest term.... although it’s to do with health. Came about since Covid so absolutely you would fall in the BAME category weather you was pale or had bone straight hair. Even as a mixed race person.

@Bananabread8 BAME existed as a term well before COVID.

Basically means anyone outside the dominant Anglo-saxon/ white British heritage or Northern European population of the UK or who wouldn’t describe themselves as such in the UK.

Apologies if I misunderstood your comment. But you seemed to be suggesting it was a new term, which it isn’t. It’s a catch all.

Technically, yes. It's the minority bit that applies here.

It's quite important as it puts mixed race people.in the category for protected groups whereby if they are ever attacked for their ethnicity the charge of hate crime can be applied as well as other charges.

@Ditheringdooley no you didn’t misunderstand. I have never seen threads on MN until this year. I’ve never heard the term to be honest. I don’t hear anybody using that word (I do now obviously). Prior to COVID I didn’t did you?

BAME and health has been a consideration a lot longer than covid has been around.

@bottleofbeer

BAME and health has been a consideration a lot longer than covid has been around.

I don’t hear of the word usually do? I wasn’t having risk assessments to do with BAME. I understand what it stands for and the health factors... I just didn’t or don’t really use that term to be honest.

I'm familiar with it via criminology. I sort of assume everyone knows the acronym and what it stands for but you're right, it's only been mainstream very recently.

@Bananabread8 I had heard of it before recent times but I’m someone who counts as BAME :)

I think if you’re white etc it’s entirely possible for it to have passed you by until recent times though. It comes up in contexts like health, police stats etc - official stuff.

Yes.