AIBU to think WFH will create new 'class' divide?

[Sallygoround631]

I've been thinking about this. Have done it myself for 15 years so the concept isn't new to me, but I am self employed, (paid per project not per hour) which is the only experience I have of it. I'm not wealthy.

Been reading a few articles/forums discussing this and I wondered if a future of WFH would create some level of resentment or division between those who do it and those who can't.

Those who 'can't' being many minimum wage jobs, etc.

I've seen people happily reporting have many more free hours per day to spend with family, breakfast in sunshine, etc. Whilst I think this is a positive thing in itself, I imagine those who will never have a hope in hell to WFH might feel depressed when comparing their situation? Is this more class based than many would admit?

(I'd prefer this did not morph into a willy waving post about how lucky and well off of you/me/we are)

I think increased flexibility can only be a good thing. The argument that people should be restricted in where they work just because some people can't doesn't stack up. The answer is to look at ways to make choice in how and where people work as widely available as possible. Like many have pointed out working from home is amazing for some and awful for others. It really depends on personalities etc.

Workers in the highest paid industries are also the most likely to work from home, while those in sectors like accommodation and food earn less than the average.

I think many people just really don't want to accept this.

I would be happy if everyone WFH so that I didn’t have to sit in traffic every day 😁

@Sarahandco most of the magic circle law firms had the option to wfh a few times a month pre Covid.

I have had a WFH job for around 5 years previously. From my personal experience, it can get very lonely- I translated documents and sometimes short stories, so all was done via email. You still don't have time for DC 9-5 as many people have found out over lockdown. My lunch was often spent doing some quick household tasks like putting washing out.

The good points where, although my work was time sensitive, I could make some of it up in the evening if I "needed" to go out for lunch, pick DC up early or even see the Christmas play. No wasting time being stuck in traffic or on public transport either!
I work in an office now and it's great!
I think WFH is not for everyone and there are many professions that can't do it anyway. I also think from a communication point of view, it can be counter productive for some, as it's not as easy to ask a quick question or get a 2nd opinion on something.

It was supposed to be being a right to work from home, according to BoJO early on, now he has retracted that I think. Those who want to should be able to if they can do the job the same. But not every one wants to or likes the isolation.

@sallygoround631 I'm not sure why people are denying it. I would have thought it was obvious.

I live in a naice area of London, I only know one person who has been furloughed out of family, friends, neighbours, colleagues, school parents etc. Everyone else has worked through the pandemic from home. And I would say 80% of these people had the option to wfh when needed pre Covid.

Most people I know including DH are returning to work in Sept on a very part time voluntary basis, think 4-6 days a month. The big banks etc won't shift to 100% wfh but there will be more of a mix & I think smaller hub/workspaces dotted around & a much smaller HQ. The dilemma is for staff who don't necessarily have the space to wfh, want to socialise etc.

I agree with you @Sallygoround631 but I think this will be more complicated than that.

For those who have a long commute, been able to avoid the two or three hours of commuting will be a godsend, as long as they have the space to set up a desk/office.

For those who have little space at home and work from their bed, working from home full time would be a nightmare (same if they have young dcs at home etc etc). Eg my DH works from out dining table with the computer/computer screen been pushed aside to have dinner.

Those who rely heavily on work for social contact will find it harder than those who have a lively life outside work. I have a good friend who has been ‘dropping in’ to the office just to be able to see some collègues and have a chat when she can work from home all the time.

For those who relish staying at home, the trend of wfh will be amazing. But not for everyone.

I think one of the big things is that, by wfh, you are gaining a sense of control you don’t have at work (eg about start and finish times, when to have lunch etc etc). In itself, this can be worth a pot of gold.

I think YANBU. I’ve worked in retail, fast food, airports, reception etc. There is no doubt WFH is a cushy number when compared to my those jobs.

However, don’t most British born people work in offices? Increasingly the ‘dirty’ jobs are done by immigrants, who remain mostly invisible to those who work in offices.

I think there’s a lot of scaremongering about wfh jobs being outsourced to cheaper countries. Maybe a small proportion will but it isn’t as simple as “if it can be done from home in the uk it can be done from home in Romania”. Call centre type things have been outsourced a lot because people are working from a simple script. But even to do the admin work in my organisation you would have to have a very high level of English, we use specialist terms that you won’t learn in a generic English class here or abroad. The job I do from home wouldn’t be outsourced because I needed a specific degree and professional qualification to get it. It’s just a tactic to get people back in the office.

Whilst having breakfast in the sunshine once in a while would most definitely be a positive, as a single parent I have missed face to face interaction with people and colleagues more than anything else. I can’t get ,shelf worked up and jealous of those who will be able to work from home permanently.

I can sort of see where you're coming from although PPs have given examples of proffesionals who can't wfh and low paid work that can. Although I would agree that a lot more min wage jobs are less flexible and can't be done from home.

Back in March when the idea of lockdown was an idea....that we knew was a possibility, there were a lot of fb memes and people posting on SM about locking down sooner.

some of the more vocal amongst my friends that had the "our grandparents went to war all you have to do is stay indoors and watch netflix" shit as their posts, were

• public sector workers - most could wfh (income not at risk)

-hedge fund manager who could wfh (income not at risk) -SAHM with DH who WFH (income not at risk) -self employed creatives who WFH anyway (situation not changed)

And agree wfh varies wildly depending on what your home circumstances are, how much space you have (if indeed you already had the set up to wfh) if you are sharing resources or space. The people that will benefit most are those who had a long and expensive commute but space and facility to easily wfh already.

It would be nice if people did have the choice, I suppose that is my point.
Someone said if you don't like it, get a different job or campaign?
Thing is, how would someone who has only experience working in minimum wage retail or hospitality going to actually get to WFH?

Unless im missing something (always possible!) it just doesn't sound so easy to do. Unless there is a sector where minimum wage, low skilled work has a WFH basis?
and going off the links in this thread, WFH does seem to be in the higher skilled areas.

For those who think these changes are positive and we are heading into a new, fairer world - I politely disagree. Society hasn't changed, it has adapted in panic fashion to a pandemic. Entities who make profit their main goal are not going to suddenly reform and become generous, giving corporations. They will figure out ways to cut costs, always, unless we reach some sort of social utopia.

Is Boris still encouraging people to go back to workplace even if they can WFH? If companies can do this I can't see why forcing people back to offices is being suggested.
Ive been avoiding news for a bit.

There are lots of people who are able to work from home but whose financial/personal/housing circumstances will now leave them at a distinct disadvantage compared to colleagues.

For example, a psychologist in a house-share who has to take calls/zoom meetings in their bedroom but has a full-time musician in the next room or building work across the road (none of which would have been an issue when they moved in and took the job before lockdown), the lawyer who has young children who won't leave them alone so they have to work in the shed and take calls from the car, the bank customer service manager who lives by a busy main road but can't keep the window closed because of the heat, the administrator who has to work on the kitchen table and move for meals as their OH is using the bedroom and there's no other space in their flat.

All of these people would have had the opportunity to come across as completely professional in work, but are now having to carry out their duties under additional pressures in an often unsuitable and/or impractical home environment.

So while I'm not sure wfh will create a class divide as such, I do feel that the economic status and personal finances of people whose jobs allow them to wfh will impact their professional lives in ways they haven't previously.

Also - I totally get the point that brain surgeons cant work from home, and some low paid call centres can.

Just let's be honest, this isn't the norm. Most low paid, low skilled work is not WFH.

Resentment or jealousy are not the same as a “class divide” and I don’t think it should be framed that way. I’ve seen quite a few posts on MN that pretty much boil down to Waah, it’s not fair! If I can’t do it nobody should be able to. It’s just pettiness and begrudgery for the most part.

Like lots of office based companies my employers have been able to facilitate the lower paid admin and customer service people to wfh just as easily as the chief executive. If a person believes they could wfh but their employer won’t allow it then they need to work to convince them to evolve or apply for jobs with a more flexible employer, not spend their time and energy attempting to limit others!

It’s a fact that some jobs can’t be done from home - that’s really not a shock to serving staff, train drivers, heart surgeons, road sweepers, farmers, physiotherapists and so on. As it becomes more normal I expect it’s something people will consider when applying for jobs just like they currently consider length of commute, earning potential, pension contributions and so on.

I think there is some resentment but in my opinion that stems from people confusing WFH and being furloughed and if you say you are working from home people don't think you are working at all.

Tradespeople can't work from home but they are in control of the work they take on (though not necessarily what horrors they find once on a job) so they can decide whether eg to take Friday afternoons off or clock off early to go to the dentist.

I agree some people don't have facilities to work from home effectively but co-working places are growing in popularity and are not that expensive to use, depending on what sort of facilities they have and where they are. And the childcare thing is a red herring because it's a temporary problem while schools and
nurseries are closed/not reliably open.

I might expect more resentment from office workers who want to WFH but have old-fashioned/crap employers who won't let them even after this agree with this

WFH actually democratises the workplace as it eg allows people with a disability that does not allow them to commute to have a job on the same terms as someone in an office.

Entities who make profit their main goal are not going to suddenly reform and become generous, giving corporations.

True dat, it's all about the ££££

I'm sure there will be some resentment or sadness from people who wish they could wfh but can't, but that's been around for as long as wfh has existed (long before Covid-19), and imo it's just one possible complaint out of many. There always will be jobs that are more or less desirable than others, each job has its pros and cons, and sometimes the same aspect of a job can qualify as a pro and and con, depending on who's judging.

I will admit, having WFH for 15 years even my family never considered it 'real' work.
People do tend to take the piss bit and expect me to drop everything in a whim because im self employed. It has caused a fair bit of irritation over the years.

What I think will be interesting is if & how cities might change, will people be less inclined to live in centrally located, expensive apartments or house shares? Will more people relocate as the commute is less of an issue?

I think people who wfh will be resented because their economic input is already being missed in canteens and coffee shops

But they will shift their spending. My DH used to take sandwiches to the office every day so he didn't keep Pret in business anyway but he did used to treat himself to a Danish and coffee from Costa once a week. Nothing to stop him doing that here.

And if you are home earlier you can spend money in the local economy going out for a drink or meal rather than in the place your office is located in. And if you've finished work by 6pm and don't have a commute you have time to have hobbies in the evening to make the friends to do things with. And if you are saving money on the commute you can spend it elsewhere in the economy. And you can take your kids to activities which means you are spending money in the local economy. And if you are home more you might get jobs done around the house more which also puts money in the economy.

Not buying sandwiches in Pret doesn't mean the death of the economy, it just means a shift in spending.

I'm glad to have the option to wfh, I'm also so glad to have the open option to work from office and not be trapped at home.

The privileged class coming out of this will be those with choice and a flexible and comfortable lifestyle (as always). Those who can't wfh face losing income during lockdowns and those who must work only from home will go slowly very fucking rapidly mad.

Not buying sandwiches in Pret doesn't mean the death of the economy, it just means a shift in spending.

I agree that spending will shift & i've seen it on my high street. However I think the issue is the shift has happened so quickly & vast that it's hard for businesses to evolve. Plus plenty of people don't necessarily have a high street with alternatives. The big issue is going to be public transport, costs will have to be dramatically increased &/or services reduced.

I don't neccessarily think its a bad thing for companies to have the facility to allow workers to WFH, and that there will be a redistribution of how/where money is spent (assuming jobs keep wages the same which is a whole other story) but there will still be a large number of jobs that physically can't be done remotely, and a number of people who, while their company might allow or even insist on wfh, doesn't prove an advantage for them.