GD being abused, SW don't want to know what do I do?

[lifesabitchandthenyoudie]

Hi, basically a newbie so please be gentle - but tell me what I need to know! My GD has contact with her dad, told my DD (her mum) yesterday that he is kissing her with an open mouth (she was doing it and her mum asked her why); further chatting and she showed her mum how... using her tongue as well. We are both freaked out and horrified. There is a court order for contact so she can't just stop. Relationship was emotionally and physically abusive, he is a very dangerous character. DD phoned her lawyer, was told to call social services - they are not interested at all! She tried to take it higher and has now had a stroppy phone call from the original SW. Lawyer has said to call the police. We are in Scotland. Is there any advice or are we BU?

Thanks, she's going to write it all down and she's leaving it alone.

SW said to ask him not to do it again. And said mum had probably been leading her. And had a go at her for challenging them. Reading your responses has helped me accept I am not being unreasonable - now I'm just SO angry!

You poor thing. Sadly no matter what he does SS will try to justify it and you will be in trouble for breaking the court order. Do contact the police, hopefully they won't try to justify it by you asking leading questions. It is terrible how children are harmed because the fathers rights even if abusive are considered against all costs. I'm so sorry you are all going through this.

Noooo! Do not send the child to him again! Disgusting man.

Have the police been informed?

God I have a five year old daughter and I genuinely think I’d flatten the fucker with my car

(The father, that is. Not my daughter)

Ugh. Lawyer has said to call the police You’ve had the advice.

It goes without saying the police have to be informed. SS are about as useful as a chocolate tea pot in a 100 degree heatwave.!!!
I don't care how much authority they think they had, not even over my dead body would my child or grandchild be going with in a billion miles of that twisted fucker.

I'm also heartily sorry that your poor DD didn't get justice. Thank Goodness the rough sex chestnut can no longer be used as an excuse for violating someone.

Your daughter is going to 'leave it alone'?
Having been abused by him herself, she must be scared. Now YOU must phone the police to protect this child.

What do you mean she'll write it and leave it alone?

I really wood advise to act on this and not just leave it alone. Major red flags have been raised and I personally couldn’t live with myself if I sent my daughter there and worse things happen, sexual abuse is likely to ruin the young girls whole life. I really can’t understand how this could be left alone.

This is why I am sooooo worried about schools being prolonged closed, if a 5 year old disclosed this at school, police would be called.

Would advise

OP, I'm so sorry for what's going on and can appreciate that your daughter is afraid. She's going to need a lot of support with this, as you already know and are giving.
I would urge her not to let this drop. The advice of her solicitor to phone the police is absolutely correct. I'm shocked but not entirely surprised that Social Care aren't acting on this sadly. I absolutely wouldn't be asking via his Mum for him not to do it again; that just tells him that you know what he's doing and he needs to cover his tracks better the next time. There will be a next time. Whether because it's a behaviour he enjoys or whether to "punish" your daughter for standing up to him.
Write up the statements as soon as possible, don't ask any more questions just phone police as advised by lawyer. They have specially trained officers who will be able to advise, support and ask any questions they need to. Make sure your daughter tells them that he has form for sexual offences - I know they couldn't take it further as he used rough sex as a (bollocks) defence but it is crucial to the risk profile that they know of your daughters accusation (sorry OP I'm absolutely not discounting your daughter's experience, just that from the legal perspective he hasn't been charged and found guilty of that).
The reasons I would advise your daughter not to leave this alone are first and foremost she needs to protect her daughter. With a police report she can stop contact and he will have to go back through court to reinstate and the allegations will need to be investigated before the court allow any return of contact. It tells him very clearly that she will protect her daughter. Also if he were to take things further and this comes out in years to come, currently all your daughter has is a Social Care bit of advice rather than it being fully investigated. The scrutiny absolutely should go on Social Care but part of the assessment would include your daughters ability to keep her safe - she is demonstrating very clearly by following this up that she can do that.
Good luck OP, hope it works out for you all 🤗

You need to call the police. I'm sorry that it goes against your DDs choice but when you believe a child is being abused you need to do something to stop any chance of it happening again.

It may be better if he finds out its you who called rather than her anyway.

And I'm so sorry that the "rough sex" defence yet again has been used to protect a man. It's shocking how easily they can use this to successfully defend themselves. It must have been devastating for your daughter to have that on top of the actual rape and rape memory.

Thank you all so much for your input; I'm sorry I'm not sure how to tag you yet...
She 'left it alone' - I mean she isn't going over it with the DD anymore, sorry I didn't put that very well! She did call the police, had a much better response from them and they're sending someone today to have a chat.
She also got it written down! She's doing amazing. It's just a shame the SWS are living up to their bad name...
I/we absolutely agree he shouldn't see her again.

Having it logged with police is a step. They probably wouldn't do anything -GD could have seen the kissing in the film or youtube clip or even seen the neighbours doing it -but the police at least can investigate and have chat with her.

Just because she did it -doesn't mean anything happened to her.

It's easy to rant and rave but evidence is hard. And if the mother with-holds contact against a court order -things can back fire on her. Believe me -I've dealt with enough of them. Log, photo and record is a must.

@lifesabitchandthenyoudie

Ah good, sorry I misunderstood. I’m glad she has logged it and they are visiting today. Best of luck.

Have the police offered any support to your DD?

Dear OP, you and your daughter must nip this in the bud now. I was abused by father from the age of 7 to 19. This is just it how it started, I can remember the first time so well and that dreadful memory will be with me until the day I die.

I have posted a few times about my experiences. My father is now dead, and I am not in contact with my mother. My mother caught him on several and occasions, never did anything. The first time she did go to see a SW and they did nothing, sent us all back because one of my brothers didn't want to leave. I feel very bitter towards my mother now.

I implore you from the bottom of my heart, stop this now.

My best wishes to you, your DGD and DD.

@StillNumb I'm so sorry you went through that! But thank you for sharing your experience, it means a lot. I hope you can find peace/more peace by helping others.

The police have taken it much more seriously, but say it will be passed 'on to the relevant office' which we have taken to mean SW... They did at least take a full report and all relevant details, which should mean the SW looks at the whole picture (thinking why that should change how they handle it, but we can hope!)

Whatever happens, everyone who needs to know, knows or will (eg school), and the GD is feeling safe and that she can talk to her mum. Hopefully the slimeball will get his head kicked in with a baseball bat severe talking to and will retreat into his hole.

lifesabitchandthenyoudie I am glad to hear the police are taking your concerns seriously. Your DGD is a brave girl to tell you this, and I hope that monster gets his just desserts and is out of your lives life forever. Take care xx

OP, when the police say they will pass it on to the appropriate department that will mean a specialist unit in the police usually in Scotland they will be called Family Protection Unit/ Public Protection Unit or Child Abuse Investigation Unit. They have specially trained officers who deal with these types of enquiries. What should happen next is there is an Initial Referral Discussion between police, health and social work which will decide how to proceed. They may make a decision to do a Joint Investigative Interview with a specially trained police officer and social worker. Even if your GD discloses what she has done, it may not lead to a criminal chargr due to requirement for corroboration in Scots Law but it could still be used in civil court case to stop contact.

It sounds like your daughter had a very bad experience with social work and should complain. However, Social Work are very limited in what they can do in these situations as a social worker cannot tell someone to breach a court order, they should be advising the person to seek urgent legal advice and the solicitor usually advises their client to stop contact and they request an urgent child welfare hearing in the civil court. Sheriffs have found social workers in contempt of court in Scotland for stopping contacts (although overturned on appeal). Your daughter should be asking her solicitor to request an urgent child welfare hearing but they may want to wait for any outcome of JII.

It would only be of a parent was aware of an allegation, not acting protectively and allowing a perpetrator to have contact that social work may consider a child protection order (emergency order) but this is not the case here.

A PP suggested referring to the children's reporter. I don't think there is any need to do this as that involves a separate legal process and if there is a child welfare hearing and a sheriff stops contact then there is no additional benefit to children's hearing involvement. At the conclusion of any investigation, the police would likely refer to the children's reporter but as your daughter is acting protectively the reporter would likely no further action the referral. The legal system is complex in these situations and the best thing to do is follow the advice of your solicitor.

@Phenoncular Thanks for that info, I'll pass it on to her x