To think vegans can’t really complain if they don’t like what’s on the menu when the menu is clearly advertised

[Foodreviews]

NC as I’ve been talking about this IRL

Now we’re allowed to eat out again I’ve been checking out the reviews of a few different restaurants and am astounded how many people complain that the restaurant didn’t cater for their vegan requirements

I’d get it if the restaurant claimed to do so, but from the examples I’ve seen, the menus are clearly advertised on line

Most have maybe 1 vegan option, and often not loads of other options anyway

In my head it’s like going to a Chinese restaurant and moaning that you can’t get a vindaloo or going to a pizzeria and moaning you can’t get sweet & sour chicken and egg fried rice

If the restaurant doesn’t serve what you want, surely you go elsewhere rather than slate the restaurant on review websites because they didn’t make you food that wasn’t on their menu

I’m in Scotland and we have 14 named allergies from the Scottish Govt which should be highlighted in menus. I work in a primary school and our school menu has to highlight any dishes that contain crustaceans and lupins - none of them do but we need to still say this.

I’m on holiday in a tiny tiny town and the hotel bar we were in 2 nights ago had every dish listed with the number of the standard allergy I& they contained it. My daughter has a tree nut allergy. Instantly we could scan the menu - see there was no “allergen number 8” at any point on the menu so she could choose absolutely everything.

@ClaryFairchild, same here in my part of the US. I’m in a suburb of NYC and we have dedicated Paleo restaurants, vegan restaurants and absolutely everywhere labels the menu with gluten-free or dairy-free options, of which there is always a handful.

I think the UK is still lagging a bit when it comes to catering to culinary choices.

If I'm eating out and don't want the vegan option I will simply ask for a plate of roast or steamed vegetables seasoned with fresh herbs and served with lemon to squeeze over them. It's never been a problem.

I would run screaming from that as so boring i wouldn't even make it at home.

I think the main bone of contention is if you're the only vegetarian/vegan in a group and everyone simply MUST go to a steak place. So you have to keep saying either "nope, not going there" and eventually get cut out of the group or you go and eat fucking boring vegetable side dishes. And yet if you insist on going to a vegetarian restaurant for a change they can't possibly contemplate it because "bacon, right?".

Restaurants are collapsing at a rate of knots - it is relatively easy to keep a few vegetarian AND vegan options available. Some meat eaters like them too.

[quote stopgap]@ClaryFairchild, same here in my part of the US. I’m in a suburb of NYC and we have dedicated Paleo restaurants, vegan restaurants and absolutely everywhere labels the menu with gluten-free or dairy-free options, of which there is always a handful.

I think the UK is still lagging a bit when it comes to catering to culinary choices.[/quote]
I didn’t find that when going further afield in the states - and I’m not talking way out in the back of beyond either! Veggie food was definitely harder to find that more ‘minority’ choice diets (ie paleo). Who the hell puts bloody bacon in baked beans! It became a joke last time we were there when everything seemed to have bacon in it (a la Homer Simpson).

I think a lot of it depends on the type of restaurant. Me and DH always try to go to small, independent restaurants that usually have a maximum of 5-6 choices per course. This usually means the produce is sources locally where possible and everything is made in house, fresh by hand etc, because the menu is manageable. These kinds of places usually ask you to let them know at the time of booking if you have a specific Dietary requirent (either by choice or a medical condition) and will cater for you happily. Indeed, in my experience, the chefs in these types of places enjoy experimenting with food and creating new dishes. It’s difficult for places like this to cater to every need at all times in the menu due to the amount of stock they would need to keep on the off chance they would use it, with a likelihood that they will have to bin some of it and therefore their profits.
We generally avoid big chains but of course, the bigger the menu/restaurant/chain the easier it is to cater for more dietary requirements at all times as it’s more likely to get used and not go to waste etc.

There are local, independent restaurants that do a great job though. Our local burger restaurant (there’s two branches) does every single burgers as meaty, veggie or vegan. They also offer everything as gluten free. I’ve only ever had the meaty ones but my friends say the other options are great and taste lovely. This is kind of their selling point and means you often see large groups in there as there is something for most people...unless you don’t like burgers!

It’s difficult for places like this to cater to every need at all times in the menu due to the amount of stock they would need to keep on the off chance they would use it, with a likelihood that they will have to bin some of it and therefore their profits.
We generally avoid big chains but of course, the bigger the menu/restaurant/chain the easier it is to cater for more dietary requirements at all times as it’s more likely to get used and not go to waste etc

I actually disagree here. Big chains are less adaptable because everything is bought in. The fajita example up thread- they can’t do basic veggie fajitas because the chicken/beef is in the frozen mix.

Smaller kitchens may have fewer menu items, but they cook from scratch so can substitute or create new dishes from the ingredients they have. Or adapt mains to starters and vice versa, or I’ve had chefs do tapas style dishes to try out ideas.

@bluebluezoo

*It’s difficult for places like this to cater to every need at all times in the menu due to the amount of stock they would need to keep on the off chance they would use it, with a likelihood that they will have to bin some of it and therefore their profits. We generally avoid big chains but of course, the bigger the menu/restaurant/chain the easier it is to cater for more dietary requirements at all times as it’s more likely to get used and not go to waste etc*

I actually disagree here. Big chains are less adaptable because everything is bought in. The fajita example up thread- they can’t do basic veggie fajitas because the chicken/beef is in the frozen mix.

Smaller kitchens may have fewer menu items, but they cook from scratch so can substitute or create new dishes from the ingredients they have. Or adapt mains to starters and vice versa, or I’ve had chefs do tapas style dishes to try out ideas.

I get what your saying but my point was that a large chain has the capacity to have these items on the menu constantly because if they do use frozen or bought it produce with a long shelf life, which many of them do, it’s easy to keep a vegan product in stock and use when necessary.

For the indépendant restaurants who make everything from scratch, yes they are easy to adapt and will happily do so as I said in my previous post. But for some more complex requirements they might need notice as they may not have all the ingredients required in their fresh stock. As you say it’s quite easy to make something veggie but not all requirements are as simple to adapt.

I have a number of allergies (dairy, peanuts, shellfish) and always check there’s at least ‘something’ I can eat on their online menu before we decide on a place. To some extent, things can be modified, but I wouldn’t go to a place blind and reel off “oh by the way I’m allergic to X Y and Z so try not to kill me, okay?”. Maybe that’s just me. A lot of stuff is prepared ahead of time for busy services and just needs to be cooked off.
Just check the menu for something you want to eat. Phone ahead if it’s something you really want to make sure they definitely have it in that day.

I went vegan about 30 years ago and for most of that time, eating out meant going to an Indian or Chinese restaurant, vegetarian restaurant or Italian (but I'd only do that if I was going on a works meal out because I knew that I could only have pasta and tomato sauce).

I still haven't got completely used to going to non veggie/vegan restaurants and having a choice of dishes, sometimes even being given the vegan menu. I love it but don't take it for granted and wouldn't complain if there weren't choices. Veganism, while growing in popularity, is still very much a minority diet

Smaller kitchens may have fewer menu items, but they cook from scratch so can substitute or create new dishes from the ingredients they have. Or adapt mains to starters and vice versa, or I’ve had chefs do tapas style dishes to try out ideas.

Unfortunately the model of restaurants, even high class ones, using pre-prepared convenience products is the way of the future. My chef (not in uk - but in a country with an excellent apprenticeship system) says they're crying out for apprentices for September. It is one of the few jobs where there are still places available (3 years combination of work & college with an excellent recognised qualification at the end). But the reasons the youngsters who turn up for interview give for not wanting to be a chef are hilarious: don't want to work split shifts (that's something that is changing, a lot of restaurants are switching to either evenings or lunch but not both); they don't want to work evenings; they don't want to work at the weekend; they don#t want to start by chopping veg they want to run the kitchen Gordon Ramsay style... basically, they don't want to cook unless they can be a TV michelin starred chef without putting in the work.

Where this leaves restaurant patrons? more specialised restaurants (esp of the burger type - or whatever the next trend is) where a group of friends with various dietry requirements won't have a chance of being satisfied. Smaller restaurants closing because they can't get the staff/keep up with costs (lack of trainees coming through). Good hobby cooks setting up and lasting a year or two before they realise that being a chef and being a restauranteur are trades that need more than the ability to toss things round in a skillet. etc etc.

TBH I'd have thought that a restaurant that wants to survive, that gets a couple of complaints about lack of [insert dietry requirement here] type food would welcome the feedback.

Totally agree with you.

When someone suggests a restaurant the first thing I do is check the menu online.

It's hardly difficult.

If you are vegan and dont like the available options then suggest a different restaurant...

It's not a case of not liking food, it's a case of not being able to eat the food.

Choosing not to. Having a gluten intolerance is different to opting to exclude food groups from your diet.

But if someone can't eat something for psychological reasons that I believe that's just as valid as physical health reasons.

If I went to a restaurant where every dish involved tiger testicles, and panda hearts I couldn't eat any of it. It would be my choice, but if I did eat it when I wasn't starving it would also make me ill, if not physically, mentally. Therefore I respect that it's actually not much of a choice for some vegans. I know one person with celiac disease who chooses to eat some gluten even though he knows he won't feel physically great. So that's also a choice.