To think vegans can’t really complain if they don’t like what’s on the menu when the menu is clearly advertised

[Foodreviews]

NC as I’ve been talking about this IRL

Now we’re allowed to eat out again I’ve been checking out the reviews of a few different restaurants and am astounded how many people complain that the restaurant didn’t cater for their vegan requirements

I’d get it if the restaurant claimed to do so, but from the examples I’ve seen, the menus are clearly advertised on line

Most have maybe 1 vegan option, and often not loads of other options anyway

In my head it’s like going to a Chinese restaurant and moaning that you can’t get a vindaloo or going to a pizzeria and moaning you can’t get sweet & sour chicken and egg fried rice

If the restaurant doesn’t serve what you want, surely you go elsewhere rather than slate the restaurant on review websites because they didn’t make you food that wasn’t on their menu

I just don't get all the vegan bashing on Mumsnet. People are accepting of vegetarians, despite the hypocrisy as you can't have dairy without the slaughtering of beef cattle etc. I'm a meat eater, but being a vegan makes much more sense than being vegetarian for me. I also admire their resolve. It's a fast growing sector and if restaurants don't adapt, they will likely lose a lot of future customers.

And he used to concoct veggie options that he stressed just weren't as good

That’s opinion though. Some people like the taste of meat, some don’t.

I am veggie mainly because I strongly dislike the smell, texture and taste of meat. As I cut down it also started making me feel ill which is why I stopped completely.

Part of the issue with veggie dishes is meat eaters think we want veggie “versions” - meat substitutes, meat dishes with the meat taken out and replaced with mushrooms etc.

I find a good veggie bean soup far tastier than any french onion, minestrone or anything meat based. I don’t like lasagne made with quorn mince, i prefer it made with a ratatouille style vegetable mix. I eat quinoa, buckwheat, beans, lentils, etc because I like them.

Even when I did eat meat, i always chose the veggie option eating out because I prefer the taste of vegetarian food.

I also disagree that veggie dishes aren't as nice. Well, maybe of you're so used to the taste of meat they aren't what you expect, but a good cook is perfectly capable of making vegetables, pulses etc taste nice. I am a meat eater but I often choose to eat meals without meat in them. I think as more people become veggie and vegan the restaurant trade will adapt. I live in a UK city that definitely has a higher proportion of vegans than the national average and there are numerous places that serve entirely plant based menus. If there is the demand then the options will improve.

@VictoriousSockPuppet i know what you mean. It's a base flavour you can't taste but if it's not there it's "Something is missing, but I can't put my finger on what it is" thing. Unless of course you are used to it not being there, or it has hell of a lot of spice.

And then get the person/people he had catered specifically for whinging "oh, I don't like mushrooms" or "actually, I'm avoiding alcohol atm" or whatever. And it really demoralised him

Did he never encounter whingy meat-eaters, then? And your dad sounds lovely but I think if you find it upsetting if people don't like mushrooms then maybe catering isn't for you?

I'm surprised by all the vegetarians saying they have very little choice. I've been vegetarian for over 30 years, and it's very rare these days that I look at a menu and don't see at least a couple of things that I'd like to eat. But then I'm vegetarian because I hate the taste of meat, which might make a difference - I'm not looking for something to replace that taste.

I have noticed a tendency to replace vegetarian dishes with vegan equivalents, by substituting vegan cheese, which I don't particularly like. I love Pizza Express's Gardiniera pizza, but it's now vegan - although they will replace the vegan cheese with ordinary cheese if you ask.

And your dad sounds lovely but I think if you find it upsetting if people don't like mushrooms then maybe catering isn't for you?

@kungfupannda

I'm surprised by all the vegetarians saying they have very little choice. I've been vegetarian for over 30 years, and it's very rare these days that I look at a menu and don't see at least a couple of things that I'd like to eat. But then I'm vegetarian because I hate the taste of meat, which might make a difference - I'm not looking for something to replace that taste.

I have noticed a tendency to replace vegetarian dishes with vegan equivalents, by substituting vegan cheese, which I don't particularly like. I love Pizza Express's Gardiniera pizza, but it's now vegan - although they will replace the vegan cheese with ordinary cheese if you ask.

I think this really depends where you live (eg big cities are going to have a lot more choice in eating out than a small village), and also what type of vegetarian you are. For instance, one of my friends is Ovo-vegetarian (eats eggs but not dairy), which obviously restricts her choices a lot more than someone who will eat dairy products.

how would you feel with one option on the menu and then a selection of frozen dishes?

An actual SELECTION to choose from, be still my beating heart! I was a vegetarian 20 years ago, I still have those memories of “can’t you just eat the side salad?”

Actually it would depend where I was and what they’re charging. Pub, fine. If I’m paying £25 quid for it though I’m not going to choose the restaurant that can only do me a frozen omelette.

Part of the issue is a lack of imagination re what ‘vegetarian food’ means that ends up in a vicious circle. You actually can make vegetarian dishes that meat-eaters will eat out of choice (really! yes! whole cuisines of mostly veggie food exist out there!), but if your idea of veggie food is something meaty but where the meat is replaced with a mushroom, they won’t choose that either. And then okay you’ve got a ‘vegetarian option’ on the menu but it’s not a great option if nobody eats it when they’ve got a choice of anything else. So then it’s “well we can’t serve veggie food because only the veggies ever eat it and they hardly ever come.”

@ GoldenOmber oh yes - cheese salad, no cheese please...
We went to a small chain before lockdown and they were ‘doing’ veganary. So all the veggie choices were now vegan.

Ok so far - a beautiful mezze of lovely food that we would have chosen anyway but there was a couple of vegan versions that used some type of vegan cheese/yoghurt/cream - tasted absolutely awful and coated our moths and left a terrible taste.

Vegan cheese is usually rank

I don’t know what the hell it was - snowpake I think. 🤢

It's a fast growing sector and if restaurants don't adapt, they will likely lose a lot of future customers

Honestly doubt it would amount to any significant numbers. Veganism seems to be a revolving door, people do it for a few years then get sick of it ime

Oddly do find that chefs absolutely loathe vegans and vegetarians though so lack of options could be down to their ideology!

Veganism seems to be a revolving door, people do it for a few years then get sick of it ime

Not sure sample size you’ve based that claim on but I think most peoples diet changes anyway as trends change, as they get older, as they become more concerned about their health and so on.

I can’t believe some of the crap I used to eat in my younger days when I spent more money on cigarettes than food.

For my birthday almost Two years ago i went with friends to an italian restaurant. Not even one vegetarian option. I asked what I could eat. They made me a tomato pasta dish. And charged me more for that than my friend who had a full steak dinner.

I now always say it is a sign of a bad chef if they cannot create a decent meal without relying on meat.

Try being a coeliac vegetarian.

I started eating meat again, I was that sick of it.

@bluebluezoo

And he used to concoct veggie options that he stressed just weren't as good

That’s opinion though. Some people like the taste of meat, some don’t.

I am veggie mainly because I strongly dislike the smell, texture and taste of meat. As I cut down it also started making me feel ill which is why I stopped completely.

Part of the issue with veggie dishes is meat eaters think we want veggie “versions” - meat substitutes, meat dishes with the meat taken out and replaced with mushrooms etc.

I find a good veggie bean soup far tastier than any french onion, minestrone or anything meat based. I don’t like lasagne made with quorn mince, i prefer it made with a ratatouille style vegetable mix. I eat quinoa, buckwheat, beans, lentils, etc because I like them.

Even when I did eat meat, i always chose the veggie option eating out because I prefer the taste of vegetarian food.

I think a lot of people struggle with the idea that some people just don't like meat.

I'm vegan now but I've never really liked meat that much. I used to say that I liked meat but looking back the only meat I liked was processed meat like fish fingers, chicken nuggets, ham, etc.

Tbh I think a lot of people just struggle with the idea that people like things that they don't and vice versa in general tbh. You even see it a lot on here especially on vegan bashing threads .

Think of it as constructive feedback. If enough people say something then maybe the restaurant might provide more choice.? Good for them and good for the customers?

Trying to eat out with dd is a nightmare as she's vegetarian and has coeliac disease.....obviously we wouldn't go to a steakhouse, or a chinese. We wouldn't leave shitty feedback either. Sometimes the only thing she can order is chips.....and some places get snarky that she's only having chips and then we point out it's the only thing she can eat. Sometimes the chips aren't gluten free and she can't eat/we have to leave.

@LunaNorth

Try being a coeliac vegetarian.

I started eating meat again, I was that sick of it.

Oh I keep begging dd to eat meat again!

She's also lactose intolerant and has allergies to random things like cauliflower and gree beans, broccoli. Actually her allergy results also said she was allergic to all meat so maybe she shouldn't start eating meat again!

LunaNorth I am a coeliac, I would like to be vegetarian too and often 'have goes" at it. I never manage it and always end up having to eat meat. It must be possible though , surely.

@JacobReesMogadishu would she countenance fish?

a Caesar salad because they insist on putting anchovies in the dressing

But a Caesar salad does have anchovies in the dressing. It normally has egg in the dressing too. That's a Caesar salad dressing. Take it away and its not a Caesar salad, but a Vegan version of a Caesar salad.

The whole point of going to a restaurant is to eat the food they offer. Not to expect the chef to make you something off menu to your own personal taste.

My DH is a fussy vegetarian but is always able to find an option when we eat out. Indian, Italian, tex mex are always good for him. Much of the food is prepped in advance, so to prepare a wide selection of vegan / veggie / gf food costs the restaurant more in up front costs and leads to more food Wasteage and higher prices for the customer.
As a pp pointed out, veganism and vegetarianism arent cuisines, theyre a lifestyle choice.

Also pre-lockdown I ate out fairly regulary and I have never had a problem finding vegan options on a menu.

Chains such as Frankie and Benny's, Wagamama's, Zizzi's, etc all have dedicated vegan menus with vegan starters, mains, sides and desserts. Chains that don't have vegan menus like Nando's still have vegetarian options that can easily be made vegan and both Nando's and Pizza Hut garlic bread is accidentally vegan .

Even some non-chain restaurants and pubs have vegan menus and when they don't ime the staff are always happy to help and advise you on what's suitable.

One of my favourite restraunts is actually a local family run Italian that makes all their food from scratch. They don't have a vegan menu but they have a few accidentally vegan meals and because everything is made from scratch they are happy to make subtitutes or leave things out to make something vegan if you ask them.

This is why I am always baffled when vegans complain that there is barely anything for them or when other people complain that eating out is a chore especially those who live in London. I live in the north east and it has never been a problem for me . Maybe some people just like to complain?