I'm a landlady....

[SomeOtherGirl]

I'm going to try to word this carefully. It's to do with making different life choices but it's in a sensitive area which could imply that I'm being judgemental. I don't mean to be. I'm just wondering if this sounds normal to the ears of anonymous mumsnetters.

So we have a rental property - our old place. I will try to give as much info as possible though some probably isn't totally relevant, but people might ask otherwise :-)

A nice couple moved in and they have a baby.

The deposit was covered by the council, and the monthly rent is £600, which was to be paid by them. They are on UC - they had asked me if I minded and I answered of course not!

I am 75% sure that the guy has a job of some description as he talks about it on Facebook.

They moved in and after the first month immediately fell into arrears, with a late partial payment and then a missed payment. They are a little more than a month behind on rent.

I did some research and found that the UC people can pay us about 90% of the rent directly to us, which sounded easier for everyone so I applied for that and all has been well, aside from the outstanding rent.

We asked the tenants if they can catch up this money and they said they'd have to do so in drive and drabs. This was last autumn. They have yet to make a payment but with Christmas and then corona virus I didn't push it. UC said we could apply to have it taken out from their other benefits in small chunks but I think the debt needs to equate to two months for this.

So now there are some bits and bobs to do maintenance wise so we've been looking at that and working out how to sort them out.

In the conversation, we asked if they'd be able now to start repaying the arrears as it would help with sorting out the maintenance bits. They said they could only do £10 a month as they have to pay for other stuff - namely Sky which they have at £90 a month.

I was really surprised at this. We rely on this rent as an income. I'm not able to work at present and we live modestly. I know people tend to think of their landlord as being Mr megabucks but it's not like that with us. We have netflix at 5.99 a month and thats the extent of our entertainment luxuries.

I'm just surprised that a lovely couple who get their housing costs covered plus additional benefits - and a job - see repaying this rent debt as so low priority.

Am I a bit mad? Should I sell the place?
I've not got cross with them or anything about it by the way. But I am wondering if I should sell it. They wanted me to come change a lightbulb recently. I think they've also moved an older step child in, which is fine I guess But they didn't mention it.

I try to be a really considerate landlady as far as I can but it's never going to be a perfect situation.

Just wondering what your thoughts are ? Obviously not planning on evicting them over this.

You are making money off the state; yet you are judging your tenants for claiming the help they need because they are not paid enough wages to afford housing costs in the first place.

So would you prefer that landlords continued - however covertly - with ‘No DSS’ policies, thus avoiding “making money from the state”? Maybe it would be better to direct your ire to the state for not building enough housing. In the meantime, and in the real world, we are where we are, which is hardly OP’s fault.

I admire your thinking well of everyone who finds themselves at the shitty end of life’s stick, and indeed until relatively recently I felt exactly the same. But I have seen too many tenants around me (either when I rented or in rented properties around me after I moved) decide that they are just going to treat rent as optional after they’ve paid for their other bills/weed/takeaways, and who genuinely seem to believe that if someone else is perceived as doing better in life than them, then it’s OK just to take from them. I know this sounds like a Daily Mail comment piece of the “Oh, they can always afford a big telly, can’t they?” variety, but I have seen it time and time again with my own eyes.

As I’ve said upthread, I’ve had neighbours who’ve ended up relying on food banks and running up huge rent arrears, but they’ve always got enough for cannabis and takeaways, and they have their hand out to me given half a chance and I’m not even their bloody landlord!

It is a hard truth to swallow but some people really are - for whatever reason - just of the opinion that they are hard done by when their problems are at least partially of their own making, nothing is their fault and it’s acceptable to take as much as possible because they are somehow entitled to it.

You need to send UC a list of all unpaid months and arrears and they will arrange a small monthly extra payment for you. Is depends how long you are prepared for this to carry on but chances are they will get slowly into more arrears. If he is working how do they get their rent paid? Are they both on the tenancy?

Bloomin eck. These tenants don’t seem to realise how fortunate they are!

Not meaning to get my little violin out here but I’ve literally been lodging at my Dad’s for a year now because it’s so difficult to find a landlord who accepts UC. Those of us who are honest and know how to prioritise our payments get tarnished by the same brush as these jokers 😩

And asking you to change a lightbulb?? What on earth is that about? They’ll be requesting you to come over and flush the loo for them next 🙄

Wow!

I'm disabled and on benefits and usually tend to be on the side of tenants but...

This pair are royally taking the piss!

And quite honestly you don't sound as if you have the right personality or knowledge to be a landlady.

I would say to be a landlady/landlord a person needs to be:

Assertive
Well informed on the rights/responsibilities of being a landlady/landlord
Confident enough to chase up arrears IMMEDIATELY
Secure enough financially to afford to properly maintain the property, keep up with legal requirements (gas safety checks etc) and cover emergencies.

Did you not check references or affordability on them? Did you use a letting agency or have you done this relatively informally?

£90 on Sky is ridiculous in their position, we pay less than that monthly for our phone, broadband, 2 mobile phones, Netflix, Amazon Prime & water bill!

Yep! Same - I have Netflix, prime (which inc prime video), WiFi & landline, mob phone and council tax all for less than £90

I did do other checks what checks?

By the way if I didn't have this little bit of rent coming in, I'd most likely be on some kind of benefits myself since I'm unable to work atm.

Sorry but if that's the case in my opinion you shouldn't be a landlady. You need the wherewithal to cover any emergencies.

I would sell. Being a landlord/lady isn't a hobby. It is a business. I foresee further issues...............

Evict, sorry.

They said they could only do £10 a month as they have to pay for other stuff - namely Sky which they have at £90 a month

OP - they never had any intention of paying you full - or any - rent after the first month.
UC always give the option of having the rent paid directly to the landlord - and they CHOSE to opt out of that, take the rent money and spend it on themselves.
They have chosen to prioritise Sky tv over paying rent - cos they're counting on you being a mug...and so far you are.
They've even moved another family member in without consulting you.

They are blatantly taking the piss out of you.
I suggest you write to them asking for the debt to be repaid - and personally, i'd also mention that your rent is more important than their Sky entertainment.......along with reminding them they did not get your permission to move another person in.

They broke the terms of the lease pretty much soon as they moved in.....and when they trash the place that will come out of your pocket too.

@MargotMoon

Debt adviser here; I'm going to offer an alternative perspective.

Yes, rent arrears are a priority and your tenants should be coming to an arrangement with you to repay them ASAP. This is rule number one.

£90pm for Sky is high, but they could be in a binding contract which they cannot reduce. Break it and they will be billed for the remainder of the contract plus fees - could be £hundreds. Understandable that they wouldn't want to rack up extra debt. Sky won't willingly agree to reduce the package in contract just because they have rent arrears - there's a reason why Murdoch is a multi-billionaire.

Plus for a large family having a tv package on top of the Internet may be their ONLY 'leisure' expenditure. I see families every week who don't spend a penny on the gym, eating out, going to the cinema/theatre/gigs, days out with the kids, buy books/mags/records etc because they can't afford to.

Plus Internet is not a luxury these days, it's a necessity - if they don't maintain that UC claim they will be sanctioned! Those Sky salesmen love upselling internet sales into tv packages - lovely bit of commission.

UC is a horrible benefit to manage on - the House of Lords just published a paper acknowledging that it is not fit for purpose, one of the main issues being the amount of rent arrears it causes. They are making recommendations to change it. Your tenants were on the back foot the moment they had to claim

I would encourage your tenants to contact their nearest CAB for a debt appointment. The adviser can put together a financial statement and help your tenants work out their budget. They can explore their expenditure and help them work out with you how to get those arrears down.

Please be thankful that you have the option to take possession of your house and think about the privilege of being a landlady. You are making money off the state; yet you are judging your tenants for claiming the help they need because they are not paid enough wages to afford housing costs in the first place.

Also, bear in mind that if you apply for possession you will now need to submit to court a statement setting out how the coronavirus pandemic has affected the finances of your tenants. If you haven't had that conversation with them about that then maybe that would be a good time to signpost them for some advice!

Please be thankful that you have the option to take possession of your house and think about the privilege of being a landlady. You are making money off the state; yet you are judging your tenants for claiming the help they need because they are not paid enough wages to afford housing costs in the first place

She needs to be thankful because she has worked hard to buy a property that she is able to rent out ? Maybe some of your clients should have done the same thing ? Maybe these people should have done the same thing ?

Making money off the state ? She is getting ( or rather trying to get ) legal rent . Are you going to say the same thing about supermarkets where your clients or others on benefits spend their benefits ? They are making money off the state ?

FFS really !

But the original question was is it weird to prioritise a £90 sky package over rent arrears.

Blimey! Yes. They are acting as if you are their mummy, instead of a pleasant and far too forgiving landlord.

This thread wound me up so much especially with the mention of Sky that I began to wonder if you were a troll! But presuming you aren't , these cheeky fuckers need some home truths. Cancel the fucking sky and pay the rent. You say you don't begrudge them, well you damn well should. They are taking the massive piss. I rent and claim HB and the idea of being in arrears would fill me with absolute horror! I would go without just about anything to keep my rent paid and my side of the bargain
dickheads like these are the exact reason landlords don't want to rent to those on benefits!
You need to toughen up I'm afraid. Nothing wrong with being a nice landlord who takes people who claim benefits. Lord knows I was thankful I found a nice one. But they need to be read the riot act.
Say get your shit together or I will sell and pursue the arrears through the small claims court. Tossers.

Your tenants may have received or are about to receive a one off payment of £150 from UC. Start putting pressure on them to pay all outstanding rent & don't renew their lease when it is up.

Get the freeloading losers out.

Stop being so passive & commence eviction proceedings. Their budgeting problems are not your concern. You need to pay for the roof over your head before extras like cable TV. They are taking the piss & you’re letting them walk all over you. Seek legal advice & get the ball rolling to get them out of there.

You've been far more lenient than any landlord I have ever had. (some broke the law though) they seem to be able to not manage debt ect, so as a once young vulnerable person here is the advice I will give you, sit them down and parent them, make them look at their budget, state you will both lose the house if rent isn't paid as you cannot afford it, state you want to help but they need to do their part, give your number to communicate ect guide them towards jobs and grants or educational grants and generally bring them upto a level of appropriate responsibity which is what I think you want and need for the time being and work with them on a support level to maximise your profits, I think you will be surprised the doors this could open. Xx

I was in a situation like this in my previous property. I had just had a baby with my partner and naively relied on him to be in charge of the rent and other bills. He had a good job ect and My maternity pay was used for costs for the baby and food shops. It turned out my partner wasn't paying anything, he was a gambling addict. He would miss payments pay one month then miss the next ect. I had no idea until things unravelled the sky would just stop working one day ( sky was insisted by him, it wasn't important to me) there were constant phone calls from the gas/electric asking to speak to him then the landlord turned up at the house and told me rent wasn't paid. I confronted my partner and he was very inventive with excuses why anything wasn't paid. As I said I was Naive.

My point is, are you sure they are both aware of what is going on? A joint UC claim goes into 1 account whoever controls the money might not be being truthful to the othet?

I'm a landlord and we have a good income from both of us having senior level jobs. We don't have Sky. After essential bills, childcare etc it just seems so expensive and we have Netflix instead. By the by my mobile phone contract is super cheap too £22 per month - I guess we're just tight!

If ever my tenants couldn't afford their rent but we're still spending £90 on Sky there'd be a section 21 on their doorstep right away. Piss takers, quite simply. You've given them an inch and they've taken a mile.

I'd strongly suggest they're also not looking after the property OP, have you done a recent inspection? You need to nip this in the bud before you end up with 5 months arrears and 4k of repairs to do and your deposit now only being 5 weeks covers fuck all.

As others have said. It's tenants like this who make it really hard for others on UC to rent. For every tenant who behaves like this, it makes a landlord less flexible on who they're prepared to rent to each time. Its about time Generation Rent stood up and took some responsibility for the piss taking tenants causing this situation instead of constantly battering landlords.

@babydisney

A part of me actually really appreciates your pragmatic approach here ...

But OP isn't their parent, their carer and her tenants are grown adults and I'm assuming they don't have any SNs.

I think this genuinely is part of the issue. Tenants who believe you're responsible for changing the light bulb - WTF!

Perhaps if newspapers etc reported stories of bad tenants more often instead of constantly victimising evil landlords we perhaps might have a more reasonable landlord/tenant relationship. As it is, the negative coverage simply breeds resentment and ill feeling.

My point is, are you sure they are both aware of what is going on?

As I said to a tenant once - as a LL you are not relationship counsellor. It’s not up to OP how the rent arrives. But the tenants. You cannot expect OP to take more responsibility for her tenants paying the rent than the tenants themselves.

@TheStuffedPenguin
She needs to be thankful because she has worked hard to buy a property that she is able to rent out ? Maybe some of your clients should have done the same thing ? Maybe these people should have done the same thing ?

The problem is it’s not a case of “working hard” anymore.
Many Hard working families will never Have access to their own home, because all the social housing was sold off & private rent means even with 2 parents working 30-45 hours a week each they barely make ends meet.

For the OP or any other LL to have that level of security the are incredibly lucky.

I don't agree with making money from property so don't like landlords. But yes seems an odd way to prioritise money. However yiu don't get to decide what they spend their money on. Also I assume the sky will include Internet and line rental?
How much money do they owe you? Is it causing you financial hardship or is the issue you want your tenants to live a lowers standard of lifestyle than you?

They might be lucky but that does not negate the fact the tenant needs to pay their rent.

Just as your food shop isn’t charged with reference to your luck in life, neither is your rent.

I don't agree with making money from property so don't like landlords
So all housing should be state owned?

[quote Boomclaps]@TheStuffedPenguin
She needs to be thankful because she has worked hard to buy a property that she is able to rent out ? Maybe some of your clients should have done the same thing ? Maybe these people should have done the same thing ?

The problem is it’s not a case of “working hard” anymore.
Many Hard working families will never Have access to their own home, because all the social housing was sold off & private rent means even with 2 parents working 30-45 hours a week each they barely make ends meet.

For the OP or any other LL to have that level of security the are incredibly lucky.[/quote]
@Boomclaps absolutely spot on!

@drspouse

I don't agree with making money from property so don't like landlords So all housing should be state owned?

Is that what I said? Although actually in some places such as Vienna they do very well with this model. Anyway I've just woken up so to clarify. I don't belive in property as investment or income stream. I think when many people can't afford their own homes it is unethical. What I would like is for people to have to live in their home they own. If you make money from the value going up that is a different thing to using property soley as investment and income. This isn't about me I own my own home. But I don't want a society where it is unobtainable for so many people.