To think kids should repeat the school year

[Everythingnotsaved]

I am starting to think that if there is any more lockdown, kids will need to repeat the last academic year or really be disadvantaged down the line?

I am pissed off enough that private schools mostly got full online teaching which already shits on social mobility but any more will really be a disaster.

Aibu?

No teacher on here ever claims that teaching is the 'hardest job in the world

I have seen that claim on here.

Selfishly i don't think the ages could change for school. I have ds4 who is due to start reception in September. He been that bored mentally that he's been working his way through the early readers scheme and i don't think we'll be able to cope with him at home which sounds selfish i know

I did gcses in the 1990s. As far as I remember (it might be completely different now) we did several , possibly 5 or 6 topics over the course and then the exam had a choice of questions to answer on a few of the topics.
In next years gcses (and possibly the year after) could it be doable to provide more choice of questions, tested at the same level, to account that not everyone will have completed all topics? Or is that too simplistic?
A lot of education is retaining knowledge and being able to record it in an accurate and detailed way when required. (Of course basic maths and english being required) A lot of jobs require degree level education, not always a specific degree so it's obviously not the content of the degree but the fact that you will have been educated to a particular level.

@Mothermorph

No teacher on here ever claims that teaching is the 'hardest job in the world

I have seen that claim on here.

Seriously? By an actual teacher? I'd be interested in some links or actual references as to when.

I've been in MN for 17 years now and I have never seen a teacher try to claim this. I have, however, seem some posters, try to claim that this is what teachers believe. But those two things are not the same at all.

I've no idea if the person was an actual teacher - who knows if any random MNer is who they claim they are. But yes I did see the claim (within the last year, but well before lockdown) no idea what thread it was on, I waste far too much time on here!

@Lifeisgenerallyfun

Nah, I once skipped an entire year of school. I still managed a 2:1 from an Russell Group uni. Kids catch up easily.

I also feel rather like this, I was a pretty part time myself for some years, including key years.

We can see who is where once things settle (in 2021 presumably ) focus on those closest to exams first, and make sure we target those who do need help.

I used to tutor people who needed catch up help - 1:1 it can be done very fast as it is so tailored.

It is a bit pointless doing much now though as we have to get past this winter first.

@ConquestEmpireHungerPlague

How about ending the rigid relationship in the UK between a child's age and school year group, which has always been a problem for G&T kids, kids who are struggling and summer-born children anyway. The range of school provision (and uptake) during lockdown has been ridiculously wide. Why not give families the choice of what year group their child goes into when schools reopen?

Yes to this. The way kids are forced to do different things just because of their age is crazy. We need more flexibility so that some kids can go through a little faster and others can slow down. We need to take away the stigma of being "held back a year" and make it mainstream to jump a year or retake a year if circumstances warrant it.

But I've always thought UK schools were too rigid in many ways. We've all heard the squeals of anguish about the constant change in the education system, but in reality, it's more like rearranging the deckchairs on the titanic. Lots of changes but the overall structure never changes. I'd love to see a Uni style modular approach where pupils accumulate marks over several years towards some kind of school-leaving certificate that covers lots of skills, subjects, disciplines, etc. You could have compulsory modules such as basic literacy and numeracy that you must pass, so can re-take, and other optional modules, each being one term in length, so instead of a 2 year history GCSE, you can take a couple of history modules. And ages could be flexible too, so a particular module could be taken by any pupil within an age range, i.e. a Maths integration module could be taken by pupils in years 10 or 11 as long as they've successfully completed certain other Maths modules. That would eliminate the need for year groups, forms, etc., and schools could run on a "house" or "college" basis instead, and mixed aged teaching would become the norm, according to ability/prior modules rather than strictly by age and form.

This could be a once in a lifetime opportunity to reform UK education, rather than just do what we've always done, but in a slightly different way, that seems to be all we have been doing for the last 50 years.

@Mothermorph

I did gcses in the 1990s. As far as I remember (it might be completely different now) we did several , possibly 5 or 6 topics over the course and then the exam had a choice of questions to answer on a few of the topics. In next years gcses (and possibly the year after) could it be doable to provide more choice of questions, tested at the same level, to account that not everyone will have completed all topics? Or is that too simplistic? A lot of education is retaining knowledge and being able to record it in an accurate and detailed way when required. (Of course basic maths and english being required) A lot of jobs require degree level education, not always a specific degree so it's obviously not the content of the degree but the fact that you will have been educated to a particular level.

I think that's a good idea. The only ideas I've heard previously was to reduce the amount of work, fewer topics, etc., but the problem with that is schools don't do everything in the same order and it's unfair to suddenly drop a subject that some schools taught last year before Covid. Your idea of a broader exam paper with more optional questions is a very good alternative solution because it's not detrimental to those who've already studied some subjects. Obviously, the exam boards will need to re-write the exam papers (which they'll have already written), but they've got all the June 2020 unused papers containing questions no one has seen, so they could combine some of the June 2020 questions into the June 2021 paper, to make a bigger paper, with more questions and therefore more choice. If they made the decision soon enough, there'd be plenty of time to communicate the new format to schools/teachers so that the pupils could be prepared for a different format than they were expecting. Usually teachers don't concentrate too much on formats until nearer the exam anyway.

@Sootikinstew

It's simply not possible to repeat the school year. There is not the time nor the resource available to do so. It would also mean no new intake of children into reception this year.

I'm not fussed either way on this, however many countries abroad start kids in school at age 5 (compulsory in school from 6), so the vast majority of reception kids could simply start at 5 rather than 6 and retain that going forward. 4's too young for most anyway.

I think with regard to the younger years there is absolutely no point in repeating. I'm a TA and as well as supporting my own DS2 on a full google classroom timetable (our school did such a brilliant job), I was also supporting my own class on their google classroom. What they haven't covered in their current year, will just be revisited in the new year.

However DS1 is about to go into Year 11 and despite working constantly all the way through with work set from school, it was simply going over stuff which they have already learned. Although they are supposed to making "considerations" for next year GCSE's, not much is going to change. Its the next years Year 10's and Year 13's who could really do with repeating the year. I asked DS1 the other day what he thought of the idea expecting him to be against it. he said he'd do it without question. This years Year 11's had already covered most of the curriculum when they had their exams cancelled (and yes I do understand why) yet next years have missed a huge chunk of their GCSE courses and are still (at the moment) expected to sit their exams as normal with very little concessions.

But of course every other parent will have an excuse as to why they couldn’t possibly have properly homeschooled their child(ren).

I spent a month trying to do homeschooling, working full time from home and looking after DH with suspected Covid-19. So, no, I probably didn't properly homeschool, but I was run ragged and absolutely exhausted.

Then DS, who had been very good while his DF was ill started refusing to do the work. Probably to do with anxiety around coronavirus, so that had to be managed and DS supported while I still had to work from home, and continue to do all the housework etc as DH unfortunately is one of the long haulers and still isn't fully recovered now.

But yes, excuses. No body could possibly have been having a difficult time or struggled through a pandemic.

But of course every other parent will have an excuse as to why they couldn’t possibly have properly homeschooled their child(ren).

Given the constraints people were under this is a ridiculous thing to say.

And I’m against repeating school year.

If my child had to repeat her year 4, I would remove her from the school and find one that let's her move on to Y5. She is ahead of all the targets for Y4 with no need to repeat. She's just a normal kid. I doubt many children are really as far behind as we think they are.

the vast majority of reception kids could simply start at 5 rather than 6 and retain that going forward.
And how are those children going to fit in nursery?

I think we just need to move on. I’m a teacher who also has young children. My ds is moving into year 3 and his teacher is moving up with him. We’ve kept up with the home learning and I’ve got every confidence that ds teacher will do a great job at filling any small gaps he might have. My dd is also about to start school. She’s got a September birthday and is more than ready for school so she’d be nearly 6 if she couldn’t start this year. Plus as a secondary head of department the vast majority of my classes are not behind at all. It wouldn’t be fair to hold pupils back when they’ve worked hard and there is no need. Teachers are prepared for this and if the pupils are willing to work hard once they’re back in school they will be fine.

From my experience I don't think we should repeat from a personal point of view, my children (reception and school nursery) did all the work set, plus some other stuff I came up with for them - making notes/pictures on growing stuff in the garden, playing lots of games they didn't realise there was educational basis in them. Both are where they should be at the end of term, if not ahead as 1-1 really helped them get on.

As a secondary teacher, admittedly part time but worked 5 days during the closure, I would say for the majority of my classes in a core subject I had approximately 90-95% completion rate most of the time. Dropped off towards the holiday - understandably.

This was a juggle to look after mine and support my students but we found a way to make it work.

Re online - I offered one yr group (other members of department did other year groups) 3 surgeries for them to drop in to for help and assistance, yr group split in 2 so I ran 3 each. Out of 240 students and 3 surgeries each I had 12 students show up over the 6 surgeries, a girl I tutor said she was often the only one in the online class. As a teacher it was not the best use of my time.

My own children do not need to repeat and will be so bored doing so, and my own students - I have a couple who didn't engage I need to pass info on to new teachers but on the whole they worked well and no need to repeat, they missed 14 weeks out of 38, just over 1/3 of the year.

I think that's a good idea. The only ideas I've heard previously was to reduce the amount of work, fewer topics, etc., but the problem with that is schools don't do everything in the same order and it's unfair to suddenly drop a subject that some schools taught last year before Covid. Your idea of a broader exam paper with more optional questions is a very good alternative solution because it's not detrimental to those who've already studied some subjects. Obviously, the exam boards will need to re-write the exam papers (which they'll have already written), but they've got all the June 2020 unused papers containing questions no one has seen, so they could combine some of the June 2020 questions into the June 2021 paper, to make a bigger paper, with more questions and therefore more choice

One of my friends is a secondary school teacher and she says theres no set order to teach things in, but if the exam included questions on all topics, but you only had to answer for example 2 out of 5 questions it wouldn't matter whether you had covered everything. If the level of questioning was the same I feel that could work.(but I have nothing to do with teaching/education but from my own perspective I feel that could be a solution)

Your idea of a broader exam paper with more optional questions is a very good alternative solution because it's not detrimental to those who've already studied some subjects

Said the exams boards already.

@BluebellsGreenbells

Your idea of a broader exam paper with more optional questions is a very good alternative solution because it's not detrimental to those who've already studied some subjects

Said the exams boards already.

I think the consultation from DfE (I think) on format of GCSE/A-level exams next year has already closed - from memory there wasn't much change for A-level...

The consultation has finished and the new proposals are published. In subjects like English Literature, the school will select a combination of the available topics which students must be examined in, minus one. This means they an focus on revising texts they know and applying skills, rather than cramming in more content.

www.gov.uk/government/consultations/proposed-changes-to-the-assessment-of-gcses-as-and-a-levels-in-2021

Mine will be so rusty for weeks. DS was in tears most days, although he plodded through it after yelling at me. He won't pick up where he left off. It'll take ages.

DD never did anything (not much reading, no baking or enrichment) except have violent meltdowns and play Minecraft. Her primary was the only one in our large town who didn't get the Y6 pupils back. She's going to start secondary miles behind everyone else.

I think there will be an adjustment either formally or informally.

Exam marking is always on the curve anyway. So if everyone does worse in the exam the outcomes will be the same.

Completely agree that the main disadvantage will be between the middle class, well fed, access to wifi etc and the children with absolutely no structure, food, wifi ( of which I suspect there are many)

I really wouldn't worry about private schools.

Just read that they are dropping poetry from the English literature curriculum and other subjects will do the same.

Also GCSE's delayed until after May half teem to allow extra teaching time.

Seems a more realistic compromise than repeating the year.

www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.bbc.co.uk/news/amp/education-53645824